No Salvation Outside the Church

Catholic Answers ^ | 12/05 | Fr. Ray Ryland

[Marysecretary]

Thank you, Markos. None but Christ.

[Marysecretary]

DING, DING, DING, DING...GIVE THAT MAN A BIG CEEGAR!

[Marysecretary]

I was having problems, too. It was very weird.

[Petronski]

The Scripture is complete as written; it does not need extra traditions or rules.

That is your interpretation.

It is a tradition of man.

No, it is a voluntary vow taken by men who want to become priests.

[Marysecretary]

Does our friend think that a man who receives Christ on his deathbed and has done no works will go to hell? Don’t think so. His argument is, as always, a straw man.

[Quix]

I think you make some good points.

Though, of course, I would deny that the RC/Vatican org has any SCRIPTURAL claim to anything over any other Biblical body of Believers.

Thanks.

[Marysecretary]

Whatever floats your boat, papertyger. I’m glad you find what you need in the Eucharist. Just don’t expect it to save you.

[Quix]

When folks put organizations, personalities, individuals, ideas, groups, associations, !!!!TRADITIONS!!!!, customs, rituals, . . .

anything

above God in any respect . . . in their hearts, minds, actions . . . consciously or un . . .

they are in serious trouble regardless of the label on the door.

[Marysecretary]

And of course you know their hearts, right? Only God does.

[PugetSoundSoldier]

Please see John 6:60-63. This is after Jesus uses the metaphor of being the bread of life:

Then many of his disciples who were listening said, "This saying is hard; who can accept it?" Since Jesus knew that his disciples were murmuring about this, he said to them, "Does this shock you? What if you were to see the Son of Man ascending to where he was before? It is the spirit that gives life, while the flesh is of no avail. The words I have spoken to you are spirit and life."

Jesus clarifies his metaphor earlier in John 6 with the saying "the words I have spoken to are spirit and life". His words are life, and spirit; he is the figurative Word of God. Remember how the Gospel of John begins:

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God. All things came to be through him, and without him nothing came to be. What came to be through him was life, and this life was the light of the human race; the light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome it.

Jesus is the Word; through Him comes life. He is not a literal "dictionary" or "book", he is the embodiment of the Scriptures, part of the Trinity.

Jesus taught in parables and metaphors. He even states as much in John 6 when he clarifies/simplifies for the disciples. We should not be like them (or Nicodemus) and take the words as literal!

[Petronski]

I’m glad you find what you need in the Eucharist. Just don’t expect it to save you.

Then Jesus said to them: Amen, amen I say unto you: Except you eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, you shall not have life in you.
He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath everlasting life: and I will raise him up in the last day.

---John 6:54-5

See, I can believe you, or I can believe Christ.

[Quix]

Theologica Absurdica

= = =

Well put.

[Marysecretary]

A big AMEN, Soldier.

[Marysecretary]

Excellent explanation. I hadn’t thought about it in that way.

[PugetSoundSoldier]

No, it is a voluntary vow taken by men who want to become priests.

Can a married man become a priest. A man not already ordained by another church, but a married laity become a priest? If not, why? The Scripture is very clear about how a priest of the Church should treat his wife. I would take that to mean the Scripture is fine with a priest being married.

[Petronski]

"...and his faith was made complete by what he did."

That is inherently James' reflection upon what Abraham had done in life.

But how would it look to Abraham, while he was alive?

I believe my faith is being made complete by what I am doing and what I will do.

James has the benefit of a perfect hindsight view of Abraham's life. But while Abraham was alive, he could only know what he had done, what he was doing and what he hoped to do.

And how could he know his faith would in sum at the end of his life have been made complete by what he had done? He could hope, but how could he know?

[PugetSoundSoldier]

When folks put organizations, personalities, individuals, ideas, groups, associations, !!!!TRADITIONS!!!!, customs, rituals, . . .

anything

above God in any respect . . . in their hearts, minds, actions . . . consciously or un . . .

they are in serious trouble regardless of the label on the door.

Mark 7:1-23 makes that explicitly clear in the words of our Lord!

[bdeaner]

The translation is perfectly fine. However, in English the phrase "shed blood" has two possible meanings.

Verb
1. shed blood - kill violently; "They will never stop shedding the blood of their enemies"

2. shed blood - lose blood from one's body bleed, hemorrhage, menstruate, flow

The Papal Bull is referring to the latter meaning in ENGLISH. In the original language of the Papal Bull, there is no such ambiguity. The translation is fine, as long as one understands the language is referring to the latter meaning of "shed blood" not the former.

Of course some might not want to permit logic and reason or common sense to get in the way of hatred toward the Catholic Church. But the Truth prevails, nonetheless, acknowledged or not, as the case may be.

[Quix]

INDEED.

THX
THX

[Petronski]

The Catholic Church does not put traditions above God in any respect.

It is all for the Glory of God.