5 Myths Concerning the Rapture: A Critique of Premillenial Dispensationalism

Skadi Forum ^ | 11/3/08 | Carl E. Olson

[RobRoy]

>>Someone can be alive here on Earth physically, but, still be spiritually dead.... it’s when someone becomes “ BORN AGAIN “ that they receive new eternal life...<<

Ok, so if they are spiritually dead and are not born again, will they not stay spiritually dead. And we know the body is DEFINITELY dead after “death”. So what exactly survives?

[Lee N. Field]

Would that be Maggie McDonald’s visions? I read that their pastor later led them into Catholicism.

Margaret Macdonald was, if I remember right, associated in some way with Edward Irving's "Catholic Apostolic Church", which would not be what you think of as Catholicism.

[Constitutions Grandchild]

I don't use Mary as Christ's secretary, screening His calls, nor do I believe in exploiting the natural love of a child for its mother in asking her to make Him grant my petitions (although I understand the Hebraic tradition of the mothers of a king). It is not a tradition that abides well with me. No, I think of her as the ultimate role model — her behavior exemplary in every way. After His death and Resurrection, she continued to devote herself to Him through her many acts of love and nurture as she made Him aware to those she encountered. I revere her for her faith, humility, innocence, long-suffering, courage, commitment and grace of character and I do not believe she was chosen by some cosmic lottery -- she was chosen because she was created with those characteristics to be the Mother of the Incarnation of God, my Lord, Jesus, the Christ.

[RobRoy]

>>No, I think of her as the ultimate role model — her behavior exemplary in every way.<<

Within the context of that statement, I divide the human race into two groups regarding “goodness of life lived”:
1. Jesus (who just happens to also be God)
2. Sinners

Mary is in group 2. I only pray to those in group 1.

I do not take this lightly:

Revelation 19:10
At this I fell at his feet to worship him. But he said to me, “Do not do it! I am a fellow servant with you and with your brothers who hold to the testimony of Jesus. Worship God! For the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.”

[bdeaner]

I was referring to John Nelson Darby. The dispensationalist view of the end times -- based on a radical distinction between two people of God and the notion of a "pre-tribulation" Rapture event -- was first developed in the 1830s by an Irish, ex-Anglican priest named John Nelson Darby, who condemned most of Christendom as apostate and worldly. Dispensationalism subsequently spread throughout the U.S., in the early 1900s, as a result of the popular Scofield Reference Bible, which incorporated dispensationalist ideas into its footnotes. In the 1970s, the doctrine was popularized through the best-selling books such as The Late Great Planet Earth by Hal Lindsey and more recently by the Left Behind series and movie.

[Constitutions Grandchild]

Man was created in the likeness and image of God, a little lower than the angels. God is Spirit, Soul and Body. Likewise, you are spirit, soul and body. That's what drives me nuts about non-Christians who think we have multiple gods. I would say to them, you have a body, you have a mind, and you have a spirit for good or evil — but ALL of those components only make one you.

Your body is perishable (thanks to original sin), your soul (will, senses and emotions) need to be renewed through being born again, and it is done by receiving the Spirit of the Lord through Baptism and Confirmation in the FAITH, since it is that Soul that will abide eternally in Heaven with the Lord until that great day of the Lord that will resurrect the perishable and make it imperishable for eternity. In the meantime, to be absent the body (i.e. soul flies away) is to be present with the Lord (to rest in Him) for those that love Him.

I can accept a lack of faith due to a lack of grace, but really how hard can this be to understand?

[RobRoy]

I think it is pretty clear, except I see the soul as a sort of part of the body. The folds in your brain, if you will. And those folds become worm food when you die.

I suppose you could see those folds as the RAM memory and the spirit as the “hard drive” that backs it up. But if there is no spirit on which to imprint, then there is no backup. And when the body’s switch is turned off, the contents of ram are lost - for all eternity.

[Constitutions Grandchild]

I don't take it lightly either. I accept Christ at His word that He is our Mediator and Intercessor. My job is to get on board with Him and join my will to His as He joined His to the Father. Sounds simple, but not always easy to do. I just keep on keeping on.

[Constitutions Grandchild]

Let me tell you from tangible personal experience, I have felt the essence of life (I call it a soul) leave the body when at the deathbed of loved ones. It's real, it's palpable, its breathtaking — not just breath-ending for the one leaving — it is utterly awesome. It exists whatever you call it. I could see it, feel it and it left from the top of the head, shimmered and my stomach felt like it does on a roller coaster — like I left it at the apex of the track while I'm on the way down.

[RobRoy]

I have no reason to doubt your experience. My take is as follows:

For some, that entity will be spared it’s death (called the “second death”) and go into eternal “life” in the presence of God. For others, the second death will render it as dead as the first death rendered their body. At least that is how I am seeing it based on what I am reading in the Bible.

[Constitutions Grandchild]

I don’t know where that essence goes if it doesn’t ascend to Christ — for me, Plan B has never been an option.

[Ruy Dias de Bivar]

*** Dispensationalism subsequently spread throughout the U.S., in the early 1900s, as a result of the popular Scofield Reference Bible,***

I have one of those. I used it for years till I realized much of the end times claims are mere speculation. I then went back to a KJV without notes as that is what I used before I got a scofield. Margin alternate readings are ok.
I also have other bibles, incluing Catholic for comparison.

[Ruy Dias de Bivar]

*** Dispensationalism subsequently spread throughout the U.S., in the early 1900s, as a result of the popular Scofield Reference Bible,***

I have one of those. I used it for years till I realized much of the end times claims are mere speculation. I then went back to a KJV without notes as that is what I used before I got a scofield. Margin alternate readings are ok.
I also have other bibles, including Catholic for comparison.

[Lee N. Field]

in the early 1900s, as a result of the popular Scofield Reference Bible

This year is the centennial of the Scofield Bible, v. 1.0.

[RobRoy]

>>I don’t know where that essence goes if it doesn’t ascend to Christ — for me, Plan B has never been an option.<<

Good point(s). We do know that there is a great white throne judgement followed by, for some, a second death. So, before that second death, maybe some go to where Lazarus is and others go to where the rich man is. (Luke 16:18-20)

Then again, if the essence you sense leaves this reality, with its linear time, etc. Maybe it is instantly at the judgement.

To me, these subjects are the Bible trying to explain red to us people who can only see grayscale. It is hard to describe.