The Rapture [RAPTURE CAUCUS]

Lamb & Lion Ministries ^ | Dr. David Reagan

[pinkpanther111]

I meant the combining into one document part. I know how to save them individually.

[Star Traveler]

Well, there are two ways for me (I’ve got a Mac and the web browser is “Safari”). You should have the same two ways, actually.

One way is that on your web browser, when you show a PDF page (that’s what your links will show when it comes up) — you should see a menu across the top of your browser that comes up for Adobe Acrobat files. It will have a “save” button there. That’s one way.

If you don’t have it or can’t find it — then you can do a click on the links that you provided where you click to “Download Linked File” (that’s what it shows on my Safari Browser, but it the wording may be different on yours). Basically, you’re telling your web browser to download the “link” instead of loading it in the web page. So, you get the file on your desktop... (it may be a “right-click” thingy, but we don’t really have that on the Mac...).

So, those are the two ways that I know about.

Now, in order to join the files, I believe you have to have the regular Adobe Acrobat program (and not the “viewer”) on your computer. But, you might check to see if the viewer will “join” Adobe files (I don’t think so).

P.S. — I just found a third way to do it. I can load the webpage (showing the PDF file) and then choose on my menu “Save As...” which will then save the page to the Desktop as an Adobe Acrobat file. So, there are three ways (for me, at least...).

[Star Traveler]

Ooops..., LOL... I just went through saving them as documents... :-)

—

Okay, basically (I think), you’ve got to have the Adobe Acrobat program to do it. It has a function to combine Acrobat files. That’s what I use, anyway.

[Uri’el-2012]

The Jew looks for a sign and the Greek looks for wisdom.

This year(2008) is a sabbatical year; seven years from now will be another sabbatical year.

Is there anything special in the year 2014 or 2015 ?

Scripturally that is; let's ignore the Aztec calendar for now.

NAU Revelation 6:12 I looked when He broke the sixth seal, and there
was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth
made of hair, and the whole moon became like blood;

Joel 2:
28 "It will come about after this That I will pour out My Spirit on all mankind; And your sons and daughters will prophesy, Your old men will dream dreams, Your young men will see visions.

29 "Even on the male and female servants I will pour out My Spirit in those days.

30 "I will display wonders in the sky and on the earth, Blood, fire and columns of smoke.

31 "The sun will be turned into darkness And the moon into blood Before the great and awesome day of the LORD comes.

32 "And it will come about that whoever calls on the name of the LORD Will be delivered; For on Mount Zion and in Jerusalem There will be those who escape, As the LORD has said, Even among the survivors whom the LORD calls.

The sun darkens and the moon becomes like blood.

Yah'shua quoted Joel 2 in Matthew 24:29

Solar and Lunar Eclipses perhaps ?

Lunar Eclipses

The four lunar eclipses will occur on:

Passover, April 15, 2014
and
The Feast of Tabernacles, October 8, 2014

Passover, April 4, 2015 and
and
The Feast of Tabernacles, September 28, 2015

This sequence of four signs ( eclipses) on YHvH's feasts does not occur often,
the last time was 1967-1968 (six day war and the capture of Jerusalem)
and 1949-1950 ( the year after the State of Israel was formed)
and 1493 the year after the Jews were expelled from Spain.

During 2014 - 2015 there will also be Solar Eclipses on YHvH's feast days:

Adar 29/Nisan 1, March 20, 2015
Tishri 1, The Feast of Trumpets, September 13, 2015

What is coming up this year and next?

Av 1 - August 1, 2008 - partial eclipse
Av 1 - July 22, 2009 - partial eclipse
Av 1 - July 11, 2010 - partial eclipse

In the Jewish calendar, they are all on the first of Av, the day when Jews
lament the destruction of their temples. As the story goes, Moses caught
the people worshiping the Golden Calf on Tammuz 17. Therefore, the three weeks
from Tammuz 17 to Av 9 are called “the dark time” and “between the straits.”
It is the most sorrowful time of the year for Jews. From Av 1-9, no bathing
is allowed; no comforts; no clean clothes; the Jew takes his shoes off; sits
on an overturned chair and reads the book of Lamentations.

Messianic Pastor Mark Biltz discovered these signs occurring on YHvH's Feast days.

For a deeper understanding of potential Prophetic events,
possibly pointing to Daniel's seventieth week.

Read Solar and Lunar Eclipses in 2014/15 by J. R. Church

or

Watch this Video for Signs of Jesus' Return

shalom b'SHEM Yah'shua HaMashiach Adonai

[MHGinTN]

*

[Star Traveler]

You’re definitely welcome to comment in this Rapture Caucus thread, if you are in support of the Rapture (being the pre-trib, mid-trib and pre-wrath positions, by definition of the caucus). We are also able to reference any teachers, preachers, pastors and/or books and other people, as long as they are anchored in the Bible in terms of their positions and reasoning.

Invite anyone else you know to this caucus thread who also is in support of the caucus position.

We look forward to hearing whatever anyone has to contribute, positively, in regards to this special thread that we have going here...

[marbren]

Star Traveler
Now that we seem to have a stable caucus could we invite Scholars like Tim LaHaye, or Hal Lindsey or someone from DTS to join us with them knowing that they would not have to put up with the normal FR garbage?

[Star Traveler]

Well, that would be interesting. Of course, anyone can do that, if they wish. It’s not up to me. But, I sorta doubt that you’re gonna get them to personally post here. And it’s not like their materials and views are not already “on the record” and out there for anyone to get anyway.

But, by all means..., if anyone knows a scholar or prominent public figure or pastor or whomever — who will post here — “go for it!” ... :-)

—

[... I would be for anyone to post here, if they wanted, from J.R. Church, to Thomas Ice, to Tim LaHaye to Marv Rosenthal to whomever... :-) ... ]

[pinkpanther111]

OK, I think I stll have a cd with adobe on it. I never knew it was an option.

Thanks!

[GOP Poet]

* back. LOL ;-).

[swmobuffalo]

“Also see Torah codes predict, and warn about, Obama presidency

How does a link to this oddity fit with the rapture caucus designation?”

Just FYI, it doesn’t. There are those that mix and match to come to a favored conclusion regarding the Rapture. Revelation is written to the churches, the “time of Jacob’s trouble” will coincide with those events described in Revelation but will affect the Jews as opposed to the Christians.

[Lee N. Field]

Right click, save image as.

Another one for my collection.

[Star Traveler]

Hi swmobuffalo, you were saying — “Just FYI, it doesn’t. There are those that mix and match to come to a favored conclusion regarding the Rapture. Revelation is written to the churches, the “time of Jacob’s trouble” will coincide with those events described in Revelation but will affect the Jews as opposed to the Christians.”

—

At first, I was wondering myself. I didn’t see the actual reference and didn’t know how it all fit in there, according to the poster’s ideas. So, I did ask to see if I could understand where the poster was coming from.

And I believe that the poster made a connection from the standpoint of their viewpoint in Post #125. I’m still looking at it and considering it, but at least they did give it a connection from what they saw.

That’s the kind of stuff that I would like to see, i.e., some explanations of how one thing or another fits. Now, that doesn’t mean you have to agree with everyone else’s viewpoint. I sure don’t either. But, I’m interested in hearing, anyway.

Along with that, if you wish to say something in regards to that viewpoint, please do “make the case” (whatever your view is) — to that poster. And also, remember that others may be reading who do not have the full understanding of the terminology, so try to not “get them too lost” in the conversation... :-)

I welcome you here and would like to see you help us all out by giving us some information that is useful and productive in the matter. Thanks...

[swmobuffalo]

Merely clarifying the mix of Christian and Jewish beliefs. I’m pre trib, have been since a small child. I also recognize that the Jews will have their time of redemption and that it will coincide with the Rapture events. Mixing the two only confuses those who don’t know the difference.

[Star Traveler]

Good to hear that. And please, do go ahead and help us all out (and I’m serious, no joking here...). Thanks...

[swmobuffalo]

Without going back and reexamining the particular posts I made reference to privately, it is clear in the Scriptures that the prophecies concerning the Jews in the OT will be fulfilled in their entirety. Now it just so happens that this fulfillment will take place along side the events of Revelation. I don’t believe you can “mix” the two because they aren’t mixed in the scriptures. The final chapters in Revelation describe the culmination of the two lines of events.

[American in Israel]

A key concept in understanding that I picked up along the way was that the translation of Tribulation and Great Tribulation is confusing in english. In english we add words as descriptors to the front of the subject, like RED box, and GREAT tribulation. But in the original translation the word for great tribulation and tribulation are two different words.

This is indicated in Mathew 24 for example when Jesus said that tribulation would be earthquakes in diverse places, wars and rumors of wars but that the time was not yet, these are just the birth pangs.

The Great Tribulation is the period of God's wrath, a time AFTER the rapture. The generation (which as indicated in Genesis is 100 years) prior to that time is in the tribulation, but awaiting the Great Tribulation.

Once this is understood it clears up a whole lot of argument between pre-trib mid-trib and pre-wrath.

If the subject is the Great Tribulation then pre/mid/prewrath are all the same thing!

[American in Israel]

nice chart, but it in my opinion shows a couple of basic errors in thinking that would really open things up.

For one thing, you must look at the book in the context of the time to see some things. For example, in the days of the writing of the book, there were kings, and no TV. So when the king made a proclamation it was not on prime time, it was done by blowing a trumpet and reading the proclamation in the public square. The blowing of a trumpet or shofar was a sign that the following was a Royal proclamation.

So...

The trumpets are announcing the bowls of wrath. They go together.

Seals also were placed on a legal document, by breaking the seals you were “activating” the document. Once all the seals are opened, the contract is valid.

So the timeline is not seals...trumpets...bowls...end it is seals...end

If you look closely the last seal is the declaration of judgment of God, the last seal is the trumpets and wrath together.

[woollyone]

Chart is by Henry Ironside.
Not my creation.

Opinions certainly vary on the timelines.

Ever viewed any of Clarence Larkin’s Bible charts?

[sevenbak]

Star Traveler, thanks for the opportunity to post the LDS perspective on the Rapture. This is our biblical understanding of the event surrounding the 2nd coming of the Lord and Savior.

The gospels alone provide much info on this. Consider the timing of Christ's coming and the gathering of believers in relation to the tribulation period.

Matthew tells us that:

“Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened... And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect...” (Matt. 24:29-31).

Mark likewise tells us:

“after that tribulation, the sun shall be darkened... And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with power and glory. And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost parts of the earth...” (Mark 13:24,26-27).

Although Luke does not use the word tribulation, he describes these events in the same order (see Luke 21:25-27). In each case, the second coming follows the tribulation and the gathering of the elect follows his coming. Not only is there no mention of Christ's appearance before or during this tribulation period, but believers are warned by all three writers that false Christs will appear to deceive many (Matt. 24:5,23-24; Mark 13:6,21-22; Luke 21:8).

Further, Matthew quotes Christ as saying that except the “great tribulation” were “shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect’s sake those days shall be shortened” (Matt. 24:21-22). This is also the theme of the parable of the wheat and the tares (Matt. 13:24-30,36-52).

John the Revelator also makes it clear that the saints will pass through the tribulation period prior to Christ's coming. In Rev. 7:13-14 an elder asked John, “What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they? And [John] said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said unto me, These are they which came out of great tribulation and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.”

John goes on to speak in chapter 13 of the period in which the beast would reign (42 months or 3 1/2 years - Rev. 13:5). During this period we are told that, “it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them” (Rev. 13:7). Directly following this, Christ comes with his elect to Mount Zion (Rev. 14:1) and in the clouds to execute judgment (Rev. 14:15-16). Note that in chapters 14 through 19 the Lord executes judgment. Chapter 15 speaks of the exaltation of the just who “had gotten the victory over the beast, and over his image, and over his mark, and over the number of his name” (Rev. 15:2; compare Rev. 13:7,15-17). Chapters 16 through 19 detail the “wrath of God” poured out upon the wicked (Rev. 16:1) and at the end of chapter 19 the beast is defeated by Christ (Rev. 19:20-21).
We must remember the beast's reign was previously identified as 42 months or three and one-half years (Rev. 13:5), and this seems to be the last half of the tribulation period. This is therefore further confirmation that these chapters describe events at the end of the tribulation. Compare also Dan. 7:25; Dan. 12:7; Zech. 13:8-9; Mal. 3:2,5-6; Mal. 4:1-3; Rev. 20:1-7 with 1 _Thess. 4:16; and Rev. 12:14 with Rev. 12:17 and Rev. 13:5.

Thanks for the opportunity to share the LDS perspective on these verses, and thanks for the thread.

Sevenbak