Posted on 01/15/2009 9:50:50 AM PST by NYer
>> In my experience, as a Protestant, I see too many people who don’t bother to understand their particular denomination’s teachings.
Perhaps that is because Protestantism is based on the teachings of Christ ... not the teachings of any particular denomination. Denominational distictions are generally minor, peripheral, and unrelated to the true essential doctrines of Christianity.
People don’t want to sweat irrelevant details — nor should they. They want the big picture. They want a moral compass. They want the truth — not petty interdenominational disputes and bickering.
What differentiates Baptists from Methodists is ultimately irrelevant to true Salvation. Sometimes people get so focused on irrelevant minutae that they lose the big picture ... glad to see that Protestants generally aren’t.
>> This might actually require reading the bible and (gasp) additional literature related to that particular denomination’s teachings. People don’t bother to have convictions anymore b/c it takes too much effort. Most people just go where the music is upbeat and there are tons of programs for their children.
Utter nonsense.
SnakeDoc
>> The Catholic church teaches that you only reach heavan through their church.
Protestantism teaches you can only reach Heaven through Christ — accepting His sacrifice, and the grace of God. Sounds more plausible to me.
SnakeDoc
And therefore there is no salvation outside of the One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church that He founded.
>> And therefore there is no salvation outside of the One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church that He founded.
Matthew 18:20 For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.
For a group of human beings to declare that they are the sole route to Salvation is simply not in accordance with Biblical teachings. Christ is the route to Salvation — and there is simply no singluar human conduit to Christ.
SnakeDoc
I've been both. I assure, it's not so.
Catholics have a secret weapon.
The Catholic Church teaches nothing of the sort. Who told you this?
And therefore there is no salvation outside of the One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church that He founded.
That doesn’t compute. Christ is the way — not the Church. You’re equating the Church with Christ. In my book, that’s idolatry. Christ’s sacrifice — and faith in Him — that is what saves. Nothing else.
“For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast.”
Eph. 2:8-9
Says nothing about the Church.
Not good.
Hoss
Individual, nominal Catholics may disagree on certain things, but the Church's teaching is cohesive.
Among Orthodox Catholics, well, by definition...there is agreement on matters of faith and morals.
Faith is essential but it's not correct to say it's sufficient.
Well, I suppose it is if you're a Protestant.
Not interested in debating this. You know the scriputes: "Faith without works is dead."
Peace.
No question, Christ is present whenever the faithful gather.
Still, the purpose of the Church is to crush the gates of hell (Mt. 16:18), that is, to bring men to salvation, and Christ did not offer but one baptism (Mk 16:16; 1 Pe. 3:21) and didn’t start but one Church (Acts 2:2-5).
Apparently annalex (presumably a Catholic) disagrees ...
“And therefore there is no salvation outside of the One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church that He founded.”
Perhaps your dispute is not with us Protestants, but with fellow Catholics.
SnakeDoc
See my previous post. Indeed, we are saved by grace alone, that’s why we go to Church.
NYer and I do not disagree. Read the article I posted a link to. Salvation is through the Catholic Church alone, but not necessarily through the formal membership in her.
Everyone validly baptized is baptized Catholic.
I stand by my earlier post.
Regards
>> Still, the purpose of the Church is to crush the gates of hell (Mt. 16:18), that is, to bring men to salvation, and Christ did not offer but one baptism (Mk 16:16; 1 Pe. 3:21) and didn’t start but one Church (Acts 2:2-5).
Christ never said that Salvation can be gained through any specific CHURCH, but through Him alone. Salvation can be gained with no church at all — even in areas where no Catholic or Protestant church exists.
I do agree that Christ started one Church — the Christian church. That church is comprised of those that follow Him, His teachings, and accepted His Salvation. I’ve seen no evidence at all that the Catholic church has a monopoly on Christ’s teachings.
SnakeDoc
>> Everyone validly baptized is baptized Catholic.
Absolute nonsense. “Catholic” is not a synonym for Christian. I was validly baptized — and am NOT a Catholic. I do not acknowledge any authority for the Catholic heirarchy (including the Pope) or the Catholic Church itself.
The edicts of the Vatican are nothing more than learned theological opinions, and carry no more authority than the teachings of my own Pastor. I do not worship Mary, I do not believe the Catholic Church is infallible, and I disagree with several official Vatican positions.
SnakeDoc
Right. That is the One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church, which is also Orthodox. The local Churches in various degrees of communion between them, such as the Roman Catholic Church, Eastern Catholic Churches, Eastern Orthodox Churches, and possibly pre-Chalcedon Oriental Churches, that maintained valid apostolic succession and have sufficient unity of doctrine. The Protestant communigty of faith are not, strictly speaking, churches. Protestants can get sanctification through their study of the Bible if they maintain a desire for Christian unity and seek communion with the Catholic Church even as they are culturally prevented from obtaining it. This is their chance of salvation.
On the other hand, a Catholic who loses the communion through sin goes to hell despite his nominal Catholicism. Like I said it is a complex doctrine.
Responses to Some Questions Regarding Certain Aspects of the Doctrine of the Church
**Utter Nonsense**
I’m glad your experience has been different from mine. I have spent my entire life in a minister’s family serving in several churches in different regions. This is what I see.
**Perhaps that is because Protestantism is based on the teachings of Christ ... not the teachings of any particular denomination. Denominational distictions are generally minor, peripheral, and unrelated to the true essential doctrines of Christianity.
People don’t want to sweat irrelevant details — nor should they. They want the big picture. They want a moral compass. They want the truth — not petty interdenominational disputes and bickering.**
I agree. I currently work at a church - a different denomination from the one I attend - we know the theological differences and respectfully agree to disagree. However, we do agree on the important stuff. However, it is important to have some grasp of your particular denominations teachings. I have had discussions with many people who, when told about a particular issue said “I don’t believe that.” They were unaware that the statement they disagreed with was central to their church’s theology. My point is that people take too much for granted w/o doing the research and finding out for themselves what their church believes and teaches.
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