Posted on 10/25/2008 7:00:34 AM PDT by DouglasKC
Sorry, but it's clear as a bell to me.
What i question about your version of the doctrine of the indwelling Christ is if it is specific enough for you to recognize any misunderstanding you may have of it.
Would you like me to step through my understanding? I recognize that it's of course going to be imperfect because I'm an imperfect man trying to explain perfect spiritual concepts, but I'm willing to give it a go if you have the time and inclination.
How can those people be early in their Christian walks if they are being judged and rejected by Christ “in that day?” The text does not allow such an interpretation.
I'm not sure what you're referring to? In what day?
I think form is an outward expression of function. We perform what our heart says to do.
Do you think the vestiges of our pagan heritage are a threat to an eternal God?
No. But I do think he's heartsick that his children have turned away from the holy days he created and have instead observed man made holidays that are steeped and created in paganism.
The way Halloween is observed by most Christians is practically indistinguishable from how non-Christians observe it. So is it a pagan day that Christians observe or a Christian day that pagans observe? Hint: Pagans were here first.
Things of abhorrent origin are things of abhorrent origin. A Christian holiday that stole from the pagans is no more or less abhorrent than a surgery stolen from vivisectionists. They’re both good things with abhorrent origins.
They're different. Surgeons don't profess that the surgery is dedicated to God as a religious rite or try to tie religious worship into it. Christians who perform the customs of Halloween are insisting that they have "Christianized", made holy, made acceptable to God, the practices and rites of Halloween.
Sitting in front a computer doesn’t seem like the placer to be proposing rejecting man made things.
I'm not rejecting man made things. I'm rejecting man made holidays that take away from the real holy days of God.
If Jesus is in your heart then every day is a holy day. Some days might get some extra rituals, but every day is part of God’s creation, no matter what we or some pagan call it.
If Jesus is in your heart AND you let him express himself through you he would observe the very same holy days he created. He would recognize that the customs and rituals associated with Halloween were used to worship false Gods and he would reject them.
You're worried about what abortion loving, sexually deviant people think about religion? I got news for you, they don't know the difference. To them everyone who believes in God is a far right religious nut. Let me correct that. To them everyone who believes in God AND lives their lives according to his laws is a far right religious nut.
I don't think it's a matter of degree on how nice or not nice costumes are. I think it's deeper than that.
A Jesus costume in any year is in bad taste... :-)
There is a great debate in Occult circles today, that Demons that are summoned by Evocation are either...
A: Parts of your own Psyche, portions of the human mind (mind you darker portions).
Then there is B: That these are in fact real perceivable entities.
Please don't make mistakes, I am not a Christian, nor have I been baptized, but I have seen a few things that make me realize there is something very Evil at work, something organized. Something cold and calculated. If you want to call him Set or Ahriman, then be my guest.
Actually there’s a major difference between how pagans and Christians observe Halloween. Christians don’t believe Halloween is the day when the line between the living and dead is its thinnest, and don’t perform any of the rituals that come from that. There’s a lot of VISIBLE similarity, but there’s really no FUNCTIONAL similarity. The toys are the same, the use is different. In a lot of ways the Christian observance is mocking the pagan observance, they believe the dead are closest to us then, we dress up like corpses to celebrate life.
They’re things with abhorrent origins. You can’t pick and chose on that position. It’s just like the pagan symbols in Christian holidays problem, if you’re going to throw out one set you need to chuck them all. If having abhorrent origins makes one thing irredeemably bad then ALL things with abhorrent origins must be irredeemably bad. This is what moral absolutes are all about.
Hmmm, speaking for Jesus. Very bad. I don’t pretend to know what Jesus would do about some silly assed holiday.
I think we should abolish Christmas. The tree is pagan, the lights cause global warming, all that wrapping paper wastes trees, and all that eggnog makes grandpa drunk and weird.
Can you show me where Christians are supposed to mock pagan religions by emulating them?
They’re things with abhorrent origins. You can’t pick and chose on that position. It’s just like the pagan symbols in Christian holidays problem, if you’re going to throw out one set you need to chuck them all. If having abhorrent origins makes one thing irredeemably bad then ALL things with abhorrent origins must be irredeemably bad. This is what moral absolutes are all about.
As pointed out previously it has to do with worship of God. God is very exact in the way that he is to be worshipped. Obedience to these standards is what he expects. Making things up is like..well...turning your back on the wishes of God.
Hmmm, speaking for Jesus. Very bad. I don’t pretend to know what Jesus would do about some silly assed holiday.
You said:
"If Jesus is in your heart then every day is a holy day. Some days might get some extra rituals, but every day is part of God’s creation, no matter what we or some pagan call it."
I figured if you could speak for Jesus in your heart than so could I.
Would Jesus celebrate Halloween? I wrote the following a couple of years ago to illustrate the absurdity of this notion:
After searching scripture diligently for some hint that God sanctions Christians celebrating on Halloween the same as pagans do, I finally found it!
Let's take a look at the book of Bizarre, chapter 14:
Bizarre 14:1 And the disciples gathered together on the feast of the pagans known as Samhain.
Bizarre 14:2 And being gathered together, they saw the pagans going house to house, dressed as demons, and sorcerers, and witches.
Bizarre 14:3 Then Peter stood and said "Men and brethren. Let us do as the pagans do and let us dress up and go from house to house as they do.
Bizarre 14:4 For we have the liberty to do so and it looketh like a lot of fun."
Bizarre 14:5 So they dressed. Here is the manner in which they dressed:
Bizarre 14:6 Peter dressed as a witch and Andrew his brother dressed as a cat that is black. James dressed as a ghost. John dressed as a soothsayer.
Bizarre 14:7 Philip and Bartholomew dressed as demons. Thomas, and Matthew the publican, dressed as vampires.
Bizarre 14:8 James the son of Alphaeus, and Lebbaeus whose surname was Thaddaeus dressed as werewolves.
Bizarre 14:9 Simon the Canaanite dressed as a hobo. And Judas Iscariot, who betrayed Christ, dressed as a princess.
Bizarre 14:10 They then sought Jesus, the Lord. Finding him in the synagogue, they began to boast.
Bizarre 14:11 Saying "Lord Lord, look, I am a witch!" And "I am a princess."
Bizarre 14:12 And their contention was great for each wished to gain the approval of the Lord for their costumes.
Bizarre 14:13 But Christ said "Have you not read where my Father said to not worship as the nations do?"
Bizarre 14:14 Peter said "Lord, we do not worship the pagan gods, but only you O Lord. But we taketh great joy in dressing up and doing as they do."
Bizarre 14:15 Then Jesus said "Verily Peter, you knoweth more than my father and I. Let us proclaim today as a day we all do as the pagans do and dress up, and go from house to house with great joy.
Bizarre 14:16 Further, I proclaim that the Holy Days I created with my Father, and caused to be written in the book of the law, are not to be observed henceforth."
Bizarre 14:17 And Jesus went to looketh for a costume but the hour was late and finding none, he said "Behold" and instantly his countenance became as one who is dead, and still walks the earth.
Bizarre 14:18 And Jesus did winneth the prize for best costume at the Samhain party and all were joyful.
Bizarre 14:19 But Judas was of dark countenance, for he desired his princess costume to win the prize.
I hear ya...:-)
But this Halloween, remember that you aren't just handing out candy. You are handing out TICKETS TO ETERNAL DAMNATION WHERE BURNING FIRE NEVER CONSUMES AND WHERE THERE IS WEEPING AND GNASHING OF TEETH. That kinda makes that mini Baby Ruth look like a booger, doesn't it?
Especially when they dress up as a hippie and call themselves Jesus.
I have seen things. People not involved are oblivious and that is scarier than what I’ve seen. Some on this thread even laugh and ridicule. That’s ok. I shared what I know on a superficial level. They couldn’t handle hearing all of it. Thank you for posting to me.
Yes it does..
Then there was always that old women who thought it would be a good idea to hand out apples or celery sticks. Guess who’s windows were soaped that night?
I think I remember reading that it is now the number two holiday (behind Christmas) from a retail standpoint. We were at a family gathering last night and one of my nieces (a teacher) wanted to dress up for her class but the only costumes available in stores for woman were "slut" costumes. Slutty witch, Slutty cat, etc. It's ceased being a harmless kids holiday (if it ever was) and has become a major holiday concentrating on adult lusts such as sex and drinking.
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I think Christians might ask themselves: what does this holiday really promote? It's not just about dressing up and asking for candy. For many, it seems to provide an excuse for, or encouragement of, bad behaviour and an opportunity to throw off our usual cautions and Christian beliefs.
Can you show me where Christians aren’t? The other primary arguer here puts forth verses that say we should separate ourselves from pagans, mocking is a form of separation. It declares their religion inferior on all levels, you don’t even consider it a real religion it’s a punchline.
Abhorrent origins are abhorrent origins, period. If you hold it against one thing and ignore it on other you’re a hypocrite, period.
When I said that I wasn’t speaking for Jesus, having Jesus in your heart is about YOU.
Your search was invalid from the start. We’ve already acknowledged that Halloween is not in the Bible. And we do not celebrate it like the Pagans, this has already been gone over.
It’s been a Christian holiday for 1200 years. Don’t pay for the same ground twice, don’t give it back to the pagans. We’ve owned it for over a millenia, it’s ours now. Get over the past, that’s a different version of the holiday.
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