Marian Revival among Protestants (Protestants flock to Jesus’ Mother) [Open]

Catholic.net ^ | March 2008 | Stephen Mirarchi 

[Petronski]

Beautiful post. Very nice.

[Petronski]

When people stand before Almighty God and give an account, there will be no “Magisterium” for any RC to hide behind.

That's a truism. The Magisterium is not some place to hide or some thing to hide behind.

If one has the faith given him by a religious organization, he will be without hope on judgment day.

If one has the faith given him by Christ through His Church, he will have cause for great hope on judgment day.

[Petronski]

I don’t have the t-shirt but I do have a Papal Beer Stein.

Ooooh! Me wantum!

[netmilsmom]

I have a “Proud to be Papist” bumpersticker too.

[Petronski]

I have a “Proud to be Papist” bumpersticker too.

How much beer does it hold?

[netmilsmom]

If I fill the entire mini-van, A WHOLE lot!

[Always Right]

Incorrect. Suggest you read the Apocalypse of St. John for starters.

Not one mention of Mary. Catholics like to spin the woman mentioned as Mary, but that is far more likely a symbolic reference to Israel, with her crown of twelve stars representing the twelve tribes. The writing style does not lend itself to such a literal interpretation that the woman is Mary, unless you think the dragon referenced in the next verse literally means a dragon. Certainly nothing in John's writing supports the Mary doctrine of the Catholic Church.

[Forward the Light Brigade]

Why go to the Mom when you can go dirstly to the Son? Very true.

[verga]

Then you don't know much about the teachings and writings of Calvin, Luther and Zwingli, for starters. The diminishing by protestants of the unique role that the Blessed Mother plays in the salvation of mankind is a relatively recent occurrence.

And the elevated role is post Biblical.

28 Luke 1:28 And coming to her, he said, "Hail, full of Grace! The Lord is with you."

In the original Greek it reads Charitoos If you are filled with Grace there is no room for sin. Luke (The final synoptic gospel) is hardly post Biblical

[verga]

I wonder how many of that 1.2 Billion even attend Mass regularly, let alone know and subscribe to all the dogma in the RC Catechism...

(I’m guessing less than 1 in 10...)

And they will answer for those sins on judgement day.

[verga]

I already have a Lord and Savior and Intercessor, thank you. No second-rate second-hand impostors need apply.

And an Empty cross for an empty Religion

[Manfred the Wonder Dawg]

Luthor had the misfortune of being raised up in the RCC and his main protest was against indulgences and salvation by works.

The quotes by Calvin do not support him being one who believed the extra-Biblical doctrines of Mary - perpetual virgin, sinless, “Mother of God” v “Mother of the Lord Jesus”, etc.

At any rate, any who think these things be true, believes a man-made tale that does not line up with what God has revealed in Scripture.

[narses]

At any rate, any who think these things [the Catholic and early Protestant views of Mary the Mother of God] be true, believes a man-made tale that does not line up with what God has revealed in Scripture.

Several years ago "The Prayer of Jabez" was the #1 selling Evangelical Christian book. It explores two verses of Scripture 
(1 Ch 4:9-10). A whole industry grew out of those two wonderful Old Testament verses. It is not the volume of
 Scripture that matters. Everything in the Bible is important. It is the Word of God. The Bible says Mary is present 
at almost every major event in the life of Jesus: 

His conception (Luke 1:2) 
His development in the womb, including the fetal development of John the Baptist (Lk 1:43) 
His birth (Lk 2:7) 
Offering Him to God (Lk 2:22) 
Early childhood (Lk 2:22-38) 
His confirmation at 12 years old (Lk 2:49) 
His start in public ministry and the first of his miracles, which she instigated. (Wedding at Cana Jn 2:3) 
His death on Calvary (Jn 19:26) 
The birth of the Church at the Pentecost (Acts 1:14). 

I hardly think of these as a "few tiny references." I suggest that Mary's role in the Bible is infinitely greater than Jabez who won so much attention from some Evangelicals.

My soul magnifies the Lord, 
And my spirit has rejoiced in God my Savior. 
For He has regarded the lowly state of his maidservant; 
For behold, henceforth all generations will call me blessed. 

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[narses]

See above.

[wagglebee]

Excellent Post!

[narses]

Catholics like to spin the woman mentioned as Mary, but that is far more likely a symbolic reference to Israel, with her crown of twelve stars representing the twelve tribes.

Since you are an anoymous voice on the internet (meaning no disrespect, simply stating a fact) without any ostensible expertise or teaching authority, perhaps we should ask someone who has both attributes? Shall we?

The Catholic Church recognises in the 'woman' primarily the Church herself. However, given the similarities to Mary's life, The Church acknowledges the obvious invitation in the holy verses for the reader to ponder the mysteries between The Mother of God and the Church. As Pope John Paul II says in his encyclical, Evangelium vitae (1995), http://www.vatican.va/edocs/ENG0141/__P13.HTM:

103. The mutual relationship between the mystery of the Church and Mary appears clearly in the "great portent" described in the Book of Rev- elation: "A great portent appeared in heaven, a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet, and on her head a crown of twelve stars" (12:1). In this sign the Church recognizes an image of her own mystery: present in history, she knows that she transcends history, inasmuch as she constitutes on earth the "seed and beginning" of the Kingdom of God. 139 The Church sees this mystery fulfilled in complete and exemplary fashion in Mary. She is the woman of glory in whom God's plan could be carried out with supreme perfection.

The "woman clothed with the sun"-the Book of Revelation tells us-"was with child" (12:2). The Church is fully aware that she bears within herself the Saviour of the world, Christ the Lord. She is aware that she is called to offer Christ to the world, giving men and women new birth into God's own life. But the Church cannot forget that her mission was made possible by the motherhood of Mary, who conceived and bore the One who is "God from God", "true God from true God". Mary is truly the Mother of God, the Theotokos, in whose motherhood the vocation to motherhood bestowed by God on every woman is raised to its highest level. Thus Mary becomes the model of the Church, called to be the "new Eve", the mother of believers, the mother of the "living" (cf. Gen 3:20).

The Church's spiritual motherhood is only achieved-the Church knows this too-through the pangs and "the labour" of childbirth (cf. Rev 12:2), that is to say, in constant tension with the forces of evil which still roam the world and affect human hearts, offering resistance to Christ: "In him was life, and the life was the light of men. The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome it" (Jn 1:4-5).

Like the Church, Mary too had to live her motherhood amid suffering: "This child is set ... for a sign that is spoken against-and a sword will pierce through your own soul also-that thoughts out of many hearts may be revealed" (Lk 2:34-35). The words which Simeon addresses to Mary at the very beginning of the Saviour's earthly life sum up and prefigure the rejection of Jesus, and with him of Mary, a rejection which will reach its culmination on Calvary. "Standing by the cross of Jesus" (Jn 19:25), Mary shares in the gift which the Son makes of himself: she offers Jesus, gives him over, and begets him to the end for our sake. The "yes" spoken on the day of the Annunciation reaches full maturity on the day of the Cross, when the time comes for Mary to receive and beget as her children all those who become disciples, pouring out upon them the saving love of her Son: "When Jesus saw his mother, and the disciple whom he loved standing near, he said to his mother, ?Woman, behold, your son!' " (Jn 19:26).

[Manfred the Wonder Dawg]

The Prayer of Jabez is a joke that twists Scripture to the point of being a magic spell. Enough to gag a maggot.

Mary’s role is important - only a fool would deny that. But it is God that makes Mary special, not Mary who is special in and of herself. Her role was certainly more important than that of Jabez. There’s no reason, however, to think she was born without sin, lived without sin, remained a virgin her whole life, or was spared death as was Elijah and Enoch.

TO build up a story of anyone with these types of claims on holiness that only comes from God begs the question of why?

It’s far from recognizing Mary as blessed by God to get the point where she is “revered” and “adored” for things God has not revealed as true.

[Petronski]

But it is God that makes Mary special, not Mary who is special in and of herself.

This is consistent with Catholic teaching on the subject.

[motoman]

Manfred - you have’nt even begun to scratch the surface as to how the last 400 years of protestansim has morphed away from the Marian beliefs of the protestant reformers. (This is a rhetorical statement - the answer is obvious)

If you can’t accept the “man-made tales” of your own reformed church fathers, please do not expect others to accept your own personal “man made opinions”

[narses]

There’s no reason, however, to think she was born without sin, lived without sin, remained a virgin her whole life, or was spared death as was Elijah and Enoch.

There’s no reason, well, except for Scripture. Holy Writ.

Genesis 3:15, 24:43-46 - Rebecca, 28:12 Jacob's Ladder, 30:13?, 
Exodus 3:11-12, 13:2, 13:14 (Magnificat), 15:20, 21, 26 (Magnificat), 25:8 Ark, 34:19-20 
Leviticus 12:2, 8 (Purification) 
Numbers 18:15 (Presentation) 
Judges 6:12, 15 (Annunciation) 
1 Samuel 2:1-10 (Magnificat) 
Isaiah 7:14 (Virgin Birth) 
Ezekiel 44:2 (Mary's perpetual Virginity) 
Mat 1:16, 18-25 (Mary to be found with Child), 2:11, 13-14, 
20-23 (Maji flight to Egypt), 12:46-50 (Who is my mother?), 13:55 (is his mother not Mary?) 
Mark 3:31-35 (Your mother is outside), 6:3 (is he not son of Mary?) 
Luke 1:26-56 (Annunciation, visitation magnificat),
 2:5-7, 16-19, 22, 33-35, 39, 41-51 (Nativity, shepherds, presentation, finding in the temple), 8:19-21 
(Your mother outside) 11:27-28 Blessed is the womb that bore you 
John 1:14 (incarnation), 2:1-5 (Cana), 6:42 (Do we not know his mother), 19:25-27 
Acts 1:14 (Gathered in prayer with Mary), Gal 4:4 (God sent son born of woman) 
Col 1:15, 18 (first born, Head of body) 
Rev 11:19 (Ark in Heaven),12:1-17 (Woman clothed with the sun)