DR. PUSEY ON THE WORSHIP OF MARY IN THE CHURCH OF ROME

Sword and the Trowel ^ | 1866 | Charles Spurgeon

[Petronski]

Read the rest of the post.

[DungeonMaster]

INTRODUCTION OF SAINT LOUIS MARIE

1. It was through the Blessed Virgin Mary that Jesus came into the world, and it is also through her that he must reign in the world.

Not seeing much worship of Mary.

What De Montforte says is very similar to that the writer of this post says. To believe this is to worship Mary by ascribing something to her that is God's.

[maryz]

I'm starting to wonder if you know what actual worship is. If you consider our veneration of Mary "worship," then maybe it's because that's as far as you get in worshipping God -- sadly deficient in my view. Can it be that what you consider "worship" is no more that what we call hyperdulia and that you really don't know what we mean by latria (true worship proper to God)? (And obviously, you have little understanding of the limits of a thesaurus or the nature of synonyms!)

[Uncle Chip]

So then are you saying that you don’t necessarily believe the things that you are posting???

[OpusatFR]

Calvin’s tenets are the same as Karma.

You may not believe it, but I’m sure there are Calvinists out there who have no problem reconciling Hindu Karma with predestination.

I have to post about the “4 Petals.” That’s another “acceptable” Calvin belief. Is it Amyraldism (as opposed to Amyraldianism?)

Lots of subsets in there with Calvin. Sola Scriptura according to whoever interprets it.

It’s all in the interpretation, isn’t it?

[Petronski]

To believe this is to worship Mary by ascribing something to her that is God's.

False.

[wagglebee]

Excellent Post!

[DungeonMaster]

Who is it here who is declaring the meaning of actions of those he does not even know?

For the record, I'm not the least bit offended by anything YOU have said and would never complain to a moderator. I just get frustrated with myself when I unknowingly break the moderator's rules. I only asked the question to see if you knew and to break the tone a tiny bit from our otherwise rather tense tone. ;-)

I guess that rather tense context made my intention completely unclear. Sorry.

[Iscool]

So by your definition, “Catholics” believe that Mary is a co-redeemer, right?

It's pretty clear from everything that has been posted that your previous pope was certainly in favor of it...

But you are claiming that 'most' don't agree with the pope...Where's all this 'unity' you guys are always talking about???

[DungeonMaster]

False.

Christ's position in the Church or on the earth is not through Mary.

[Petronski]

Are you saying that you can reply to my posts with complete non-sequiturs?

[Iscool]

Can it be that what you consider "worship" is no more that what we call hyperdulia and that you really don't know what we mean by latria (true worship proper to God)? (And obviously, you have little understanding of the limits of a thesaurus or the nature of synonyms!)

Seems like a perfect opportunity for you to expain these things, to clear the matter up...

[Petronski]

...your previous pope was certainly in favor of it...

In favor of what? Defining it as a Church teaching? It is pretty clear he was not.

If he had favored it, he would have done it.

[Petronski]

Christ's position in the Church or on the earth is not through Mary.

Thus you disagree with the premise that "Christ's position in the Church and on the earth is through Mary."

Who said that?

[DungeonMaster]

Who said that?

The original post with all the neck business and De Montfort. One could find many popes saying the same thing.

[Petrosius]

INTRODUCTION OF SAINT LOUIS MARIE

1. It was through the Blessed Virgin Mary that Jesus came into the world, and it is also through her that he must reign in the world.

What De Montforte says is very similar to that the writer of this post says. To believe this is to worship Mary by ascribing something to her that is God's.

1. Jesus did come into the world through Mary, did she not?

2. God can, if he so chooses, use human agents, can he not?

So a first response shows that neither statement is attributing divine attributes to Mary. Beyond this I have not read De Montforte and so I cannot respond to what he meant in context; anything that I would say would only be speculation of what he meant. If you could give me a full citation I will read what he said and get back to you.

[Petronski]

The way you formulated it?

I doubt it.

[DungeonMaster]

Seems like a perfect opportunity for you to expain these things, to clear the matter up...

Yes

[DungeonMaster]

De Montfort used the word reign, the meaning is the same. Nothing that the Lord Jesus is currently doing as the Head of the the Church or Saviour of the Church is through Mary.

[LordBridey]

LOL You very nearly achieved the level of annoying confusion of your inspiration. Great attempt!