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Posted on 05/08/2008 5:04:47 PM PDT by Grig
Central Utah? We were almost neighbors. Were you in Millard County or Sevier County?
“Seriously, when you go to Catholic.com, you are quoting one man’s opinion.
Karl Keating is a great guy and some of the things on his site are wonderful but some are lacking.”
Then what does this stuff mean at the bottom of the page?
http://www.catholic.com/library/Mormon_Stumpers.asp
“When they aren’t forthcoming, be prepared to offer the truth.”
NIHIL OBSTAT: I have concluded that the materials
presented in this work are free of doctrinal or moral errors.
Bernadeane Carr, STL, Censor Librorum, August 10, 2004
IMPRIMATUR: In accord with 1983 CIC 827
permission to publish this work is hereby granted.
+Robert H. Brom, Bishop of San Diego, August 10, 2004
What Mormon efforts?
To say that people have freedom to worship the way they want? That’s not from the Vatican. It’s from the Consitiution.
My son says some people should never be allowed to breed.
Well, I AM His child...
Read the words under the Latin. It clearly explains it.
However, because a document has been given either of these approvals, that doesn't mean it's dogma. It does mean that it can be taken as approved by the church. And there are many other documents that come into play with them. Official documents, from the Vatican.
And you are taking the “Mormon Stumpers” as a way to proselytize to Mormons. That's what you're not getting in it. We don't.
If they found chariots, wheels, spears, etc. in the Red Sea, certainly they can find them on Hill Cumorah! Let’s have a dig...
Utah County. Though at one time, I knew all the roads to everywhere else in the state like the back of my hand.
“What Mormon efforts?
To say that people have freedom to worship the way they want? That’s not from the Vatican. It’s from the Consitiution.”
The constitution? Yeah sure, that is what we have been talking about, anything but the Catholic position on Mormonism.
“However, because a document has been given either of these approvals, that doesn’t mean it’s dogma. It does mean that it can be taken as approved by the church. “
I feel like I just got you to open up a little from this.
“Seriously, when you go to Catholic.com, you are quoting one man’s opinion.
Karl Keating is a great guy and some of the things on his site are wonderful but some are lacking.”
Show me a link that shows that they agree with mormon doctrine.
Exactly! Good point.
If you would not insist that Mormonism is a Christian religion, you wouldn’t open yourself up to such criticism. (I don’t mean ‘you’ personally, but Mormons in general.) Blessings, Mary
Aw, gee. That was ‘nice.’
You know the Catholic position on Mormonism. You posted the links so there’s no need to be coy.
I am telling you that as a Catholic, I believe what the Pope says. If you are genuinely interested then you can go here....
http://www.zenit.org/article-15020?l=english
It’s a part two but you can easily go back to part one. Here is what is very important...
>>...Q: Since the Second Vatican Council, what has been the Catholic view of nonbelievers?
Morali: The question offers me the occasion to touch upon one of the aspects the Pope has commented upon regarding the “spark” harbored by those who do not have biblical faith.
Vatican II places among the latter both people belonging to other religions as well as people who are specifically nonbelievers. They are two profoundly different groups, but united by the fact that they do not have the faith of Christ. The former cultivate some form of religious belief; the latter affirm that they do not have faith.
In No. 16 of the dogmatic constitution “Lumen Gentium,” the Council, recalling the principle of the universal saving will of God, affirmed that those who seek God with sincerity, and make an effort under the influence of grace to do his will with works, known by the dictate of conscience, may obtain eternal salvation.
This affirmation reflects indirectly the teaching of Pius IX, but it emphasizes an aspect not considered until now: that of grace. The search for the good, the determination and the will to carry it out are effects of the action of grace.
Moreover, the Council added, almost to stress this principle, “Nor does Divine Providence deny the helps necessary for salvation to those who, without blame on their part, have not yet arrived at an explicit knowledge of God and with His grace strive to live a good life.”
According to the Council, no effort can take place “without grace.” That means that God is also close to those who do not know him. This same teaching is found in the pastoral constitution “Gaudium et Spes,” where in No. 22 the Council acknowledges that grace works in the hearts of all men of good will.
The people to whom the Holy Father refers are, in a certain sense, the same as those of whom the Council spoke. However, some one might object that the Council, in No. 7 of the decree “Ad Gentes” on missionary activity, underlines the principle of the necessity of faith for salvation, in addition to the need of baptism and of the Church.
It might also be underlined that in this number Vatican II affirms that “those cannot be saved, who though aware that God, through Jesus Christ founded the Church as something necessary, still do not wish to enter into it, or to persevere in it.”
According to Catholic doctrine, faith of course, is necessary for salvation. This principle, sanctioned in the Letter to the Hebrews 11:6 has been accepted by the Christian tradition since its beginning. And here, in this context, it is proposed again in a clear way.
Q: And who does not have a complete faith?
Morali: Christian tradition itself acknowledges that not all have received the gift of the fullness of faith and that there can also be very imperfect forms of faith.
In the chapter on faith, the Roman Catechism, which was composed after the Council of Trent, acknowledges that there are different degrees of faith: There are those who have a great faith and others who have a fragile faith.
It takes this teaching from the Gospel, in reference to the many words that Jesus Christ pronounced on the faith of his disciples, of the people with whom he met.
However, we cannot pause on this first part of the Council’s reflection proposed in No. 7 of the decree “Ad Gentes” on the necessity of faith, but we must also read what follows: “Though God in ways known to himself can lead those inculpably ignorant of the Gospel to find that faith without which it is impossible to please him, yet a necessity lies upon the Church, and at the same time a sacred duty, to preach the Gospel.”
This means that God has his ways to lead men to faith and we certainly cannot penetrate in the inscrutable divine action in the hearts of men. In its complexity, the teaching of “Ad Gentes” helps us to understand two principles.....<<<
Personally, I’ve been talking about the Freedom of Religion here. I’m not sure what you’ve been talking about.
Signed by Utah Girl.
Well, I’ll take my 66 books and be happy with that, I guess. They at least are the ones God wanted in there.
>>I feel like I just got you to open up a little from this.<<
I’ve been open all along. Told you I got tossed from CAF for being too conservative. How much more open do you want me to get?
How about this. Why don’t you tell me exactly what you want me to say, I can cut and paste it for you and then get out to spread grub killer on my lawn.
It would please my husband to no end.
It may have had something to do with not casting pearls before swine, indicating that the gentiles are swine.
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Heh. I'd be out in the yard, but we're having some rain here. It's good for the transplants I put in yesterday and the day before, so I'm not complaining.
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