Posted on 05/07/2008 8:53:09 AM PDT by Manfred the Wonder Dawg
I think the direct instructions of God given Mary and Joseph through His angels can tend to supersede the general commands given the rest of us.
English Standard Version myself. What translation are you using? I guess you don't understand that translations are not always 100% accurate, especially when there are cultural as well as language differences.
If you want to argue your case, you'll have to go back to the original language and not a translation. From what I've researched, the original language and cultural reference does not mean full brother but could also include half brothers and cousins.
Again, I believe Mary was a Godly woman and fulfilled her wifely duties. But Mary's virginal status after birth is not important to our faith and I don't believe it is discussed in the Bible.
You could even point to the verse where Mary did not know her husband until they were married, but going back to the original language, you'll find the verb used has a special meaning such that nothing can be inferred about what happens after the marriage. The same verb is used to discuss that a woman did not have a child until she was dead.
So go ahead and use a translation without the cultural references, but understand that your interpretation is sophomoric.
Well you came to the right thread, an open Marian discussion is sure to bring some interesting discussion. Of all the Catholic doctrine, the doctrine surrounding Mary has to be the doctrine on the weakest ground.
Personally I think it’s tied for first with the doctrine of a celibate priesthood. Priesthood is bad enough but celibate is very damaging.
The reason this discussion happens is to throw darts into the infallibility of the Pope and thus discredit the Catholic Church claim of being the one true church which implies all Protestants as just heathens.
Not at the Pope, but just his infallibility. JP II was one of the great men of the 20th Century. Some of the arguments against Marian Doctrine are a bit of a stretch, but much less of a stretch then the arguments for the Marianisms.
No, you are just coming to these debates years late. I’ve posted long papers on this online. I will let you search for them yourself.
I can't take the Pope seriously. The whole claim is just silly. Arguing Marian theology against the Bible is a waste of time. The Bible is just vague enough so that you can't prove it either way. Catholics use oral tradition, so they have their proof. Protestants are left if a gray area. It's an opinionated argument at best.
The easiest refutation of the Popery only requires 3 verses:
Revelation 21:14 And the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and on them were the twelve names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb.
Romans 15:20 "and thus I make it my ambition to preach the gospel, not where Christ has already been named, lest I build on someone else’s foundation"
1 Corinthians 3:10a By the grace God has given me, I laid a foundation as an expert builder, and someone else is building on it.
It's clear that Paul did not build on Peter's foundation. Anyone who built on the Apostles does not add to the foundation, but builds on it.
Even if the Catholic Church is the successor of Peter, they are not a foundation and they are not universal.
1 Corinthians 3:11 For no one can lay any foundation other than the one already laid, which is Jesus Christ. 12 If any man builds on this foundation using gold, silver, costly stones, wood, hay or straw, 13 his work will be shown for what it is, because the Day will bring it to light. It will be revealed with fire, and the fire will test the quality of each man's work.
The Catholic Church is not part of the foundation. They have built on the foundation. Therefore, what they have built will be judged with fire. While I'm unsure if Marian theology will survive, I'm sure that the Throne of Peter will not.
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