Posted on 05/02/2008 2:09:51 PM PDT by Augustinian monk
“Speaking as a Presbyterian, I’ve never in my life heard of a Presbyterian denying Sola Scriptura. What Presbyterian church do you belong to?”
I’m not denying Sola Scriptura. I just find the premise flawed. That doesn’t mean I don’t find the alternative flawed (even more flawed), as well.
On this thread, I’ve been arguing more in terms of a devil’s advocate more than anything. I’m a Protestant with a pretty good knowlege of church history and theology. I just find a lot of passive dismissals of the Catholic Church more than a bit myopic, as these matters can’t be dealt with as flippantly as some have around here.
But for the record, I’m a member of the Evangelical Presbyterian Church and specifically chose it because I found a much greater emphasis placed on scripture, traditional belief, and missions than PCUSA, for instance.
I will say you most definitely see a progression in time of the scriptures revealing an ever-widening circle of understanding about God. And yes, some changes. For instance, regarding whether a man would be held accountable for the sins of his father. But I just find the concept of divine revelation essentially stopping after the canonization of scripture as far as the church is concerned to be lacking.
That doesn’t mean that I am advocating more scripture be added, but I believe the Catholic Church has the right idea in its recording and emphasis on Church history.
That is a common protestant mistranslation. Quite intentional, I think.
If it is intentional 'Protestant' mistranslation the Roman Catholic New Jerusalem Bible must be a Protestant Bible in disguise!
Luke 1: 28 He went in and said to her, 'Rejoice, you who enjoy God's favour! The Lord is with you.'
http://www.catholic.org/bible/book.php?id=42
Sound like you have a touch of Pelegianism!
The sure sign of rejecting Sola Scriptura!
All men are in Adam when they are born, so they are spiritually dead.
They need to get into Christ, to receive spiritual life.(Rom.5, 1Cor.15)
Yes.
[ ...found in the Received Text Bibles of the Reformation. ]
LOL
Pr.18: 2] A fool hath no delight in understanding, but that his heart may discover itself.
I was rather surprise at how marxist some of the writings of Thomas More and Catholics during the Reformation actually are. They felt power should be grouped in the hands of a few "educated" people, presumably the Church. It isn't surprising that Catholic countries like Spain should become marxist.
There is plenty of mischief in the “New” Jerusalem Bible.
You raise a good point.
It is probably the result of the church and state connection. When the church in Rome became dominant it began to attract the wealthy and powerful into it's hierarchy. Ambrose is a great example, he went from being a pagan to becoming a Christian, to becoming a Bishop in one week.
Also, prior to the Reformation and the Scriptures becoming unlocked the RCC was able to threaten excommunication and eternal damnation to those that would not do it's bidding. They claimed to hold all the secrets and power over salvation (pretty elitist). They could raise armies to fight in the crusades by promising eternal life to all that went. IOW, they have a history of acting like an autocrat.
I've been reading about some of the Christian Churches that were persecuted at the direction of Rome and one of the common denominators among these groups was they refused to submit to the dominance of Rome and instead trusted Scripture. The resulting persecution being another example of the autocratic/elitist mind set.
Fascism can dress in a variety of skirts and shirts, but it’s all the same thing — power in the hands of a select few over the lives and souls of the rest of us.
If you had followed these discussions, you would have found that no one is passively dismissing Rome.
We articulate the Scriptures quite carefully and fully regarding where Rome strays from the word of God.
I believe the Catholic Church has the right idea in its recording and emphasis on Church history.
I would venture a guess you are an Evangelical Presbyterian of one on that score.
We don't do that, we don't think we do that, we don't claim to do that, so this amounts to you bearing false witness.
You need to get Jesus off the Cross
Is preaching Christ crucified a stumbling-block to you, or is it a foolishness?
What is needed is a full and complete articulation of what Catholics actually believe (rather than a strawman fiddy feet tall).
***The Apostles and their successors were Catholic. You may be proud that you’re not. Theologically speaking, where does that leave you?***
On more honest and higher Theological ground.
*** ~~~ ***The Lord still speaks to me. I get “revelations” every day.*** ~ L_C
Perhaps a hat lined with tinfoil might fix that.***
You have no idea how much sadness I feel for so many Catholics that are so busy listening to men that they fail to hear the voice of God. Oh, well, as the Lord wills.
Sola Scriptura!!!
***Rome does not believe the Holy Spirit wrote the Bible.***
It is honesty in its most refreshing form....
Ah, we have Bibliolatry; the Holy Spirit wrote the Bible
“If you had followed these discussions, you would have found that no one is passively dismissing Rome.”
Who is this “we” you refer to? What, you act like you haven’t been around Free Republican long enough to hear of the “Apostate church.” Give me a freaking break. I grew up in a Baptist Church. I know what thoughtless dismissals are.
“We articulate the Scriptures quite carefully and fully regarding where Rome strays from the word of God.”
You esteem yourself quite highly, don’t you?
“I would venture a guess you are an Evangelical Presbyterian of one on that score.”
Venture all you want. A wager based on no evidence whatsoever is one I’m pretty much always willing to side against.
Oh no, not another bad Roman Catholic translation!
But it says that there is nothing 'offensive' to Catholic doctrine in it!
The fact remains that Roman Catholic translators translated Lk.1:28 that Mary was 'highly favored' and not 'full of Grace'.
AMEN!
well, the Orthodox comes to mind. :)
Thanks you, Campion. The so-often overlooked words of St. Paul.
Two words for you...Immaculate Conception
I guess neither you nor I were very well-catcheiszed when we were growing up. I too fell away from the Faith. I’m so happy I remained Catholic (back 3 years now!)
Lynne
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