TRANSUBSTANTIATION FOR BEGINNERS

On This Rock ^ | CANON FRANCIS J. RIPLEY

[reagandemocrat]

I guess I don’t understand why your Seven Habits of Highly Effective People sounds so much like prosperity Gospel.

From your website:

“Seven Habits of Highly Effective People, per Stephen Covey supplemented by SLB and supported by Scripture.

1. Be Proactive. Do something! Don’t wait to be slapped up side the head.

Galatians 6:4 But let every man prove his own work, and then shall he have rejoicing in himself alone, and not in another.

2. Begin with an End in Mind. You can’t get somewhere if you don’t where it is. If you’re “just going anywhere”, you’ll end up nowhere.

Philippians 3:14 I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus.

3. Put First Things First. Prioritize your activities and say NO to unimportant things, regardless of the perceived urgency.

Matthew 6:33 But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you.

4. Think Win-Win. Long term success is determined by how many people you help be successful, not building yourself up at the expense of others.

Romans 12:10 Be kindly affectioned one to another with brotherly love; in honour preferring one another;

5. Seek First to Understand, Then to be Understood. You cannot convince others to assist you until you understand their perspective. They will be more willing to listen and help after they see that you have listened to them.

Ephesians 4:32 And be ye kind one to another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God for Christ’s sake hath forgiven you.

6. Synergy. Two or three working together are much stronger and more efficient than two or three working separately toward to same goal.

Ecclesiastes 4:9-12 Two are better than one; because they have a good reward for their labour. For if they fall, the one will lift up his fellow: but woe to him that is alone when he falleth; for he hath not another to help him up. Again, if two lie together, then they have heat: but how can one be warm alone? And if one prevail against him, two shall withstand him; and a threefold cord is not quickly broken.

7. Sharpen the Saw. Never cease seeking improvement in yourself and your operation. Use others to help you understand weak points and ways to improve them.

Hebrews 10:24-25 And let us consider one another to provoke unto love and to good works: Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.””

[Manfred the Wonder Dawg]

If you seek to be understood, please be so kind as to explain how what you copied from my site promotes the heretical prosperity gospel.

[reagandemocrat]

Your language “Be Pro-active”, “Win/Win”, “Long term success” and “Synergy” are terms I believe lead to prosperity Gospel, at least I don’t think we’ll find them in Scripture.

(But, naturally, being papist, I know very little of Scripture)

[reagandemocrat]

Oh, that and the fact that you studied the 7 Habits at a management seminar as a “business” requirement should give cause for concern.

[Manfred the Wonder Dawg]

If you look at the Scripture I used to explain my meaning of Covey’s points, I don’t think you see prosperity gospel lurking there. The phrase you cited are Covey’s. Read the Scripture to see how I interpreted them.

Is your parenthetical comment meant to be sarcasm?

Regarding your post to yourself, which I think was directed to me: when I first began reading Covey’s material (this was 12 years ago), I did not know the man was a Mormon. I recognized Biblical Truth in some of his points (though a cult, the Mormon’s Bible has much the same content as a Christian Bible, with myriad key differences). When I read anything from a human, I am guarded - because I know humans are wicked and sinful people, interested in self more than anything else; and because many who claim Christ are not His, so none can be taken at face value.

Why is it of concern that my employer used Covey’s material? My current employer used Carl Jung’s material. I knew it was evil and participated in as little as I could, keeping nothing from the class. Such is living in the world, ruled for a season by the prince of darkness.

[reagandemocrat]

>>> I don’t think you see prosperity gospel lurking there.<<<

Well, I do see prosperity gospel lurking there.

You incorporated Covey’s language on your website—you can not simply quote the language, and not bear responsibility just because you didn’t pen the phrasing.

Even the title pertains to “Highly Effective People”

>>Is your parenthetical comment meant to be sarcasm?<<

maybe a little

>>> When I read anything from a human, I am guarded - because I know humans are wicked and sinful people, interested in self more than anything else; and because many who claim Christ are not His, so none can be taken at face value.<<<

No disagreement here.

>>>Why is it of concern that my employer used Covey’s material?<<

I’m not concerned about your employer-— I am concerned with what appears to be your publishing of prosperity gospel on the world wide web. That notwithstanding, I am grateful that you understand the prince of darkness rules the season and that you don’t publish Carl Jung’s material. That’s a start.

I’m off to bed now, but will be happy to pick this up tomorrow after work.

[Manfred the Wonder Dawg]

Sleep well. I’m in Taiwan on business (it’s a local holiday today), fixn’ to go out for a bite of lunch.

I had not thought of Covey’s material as prosperity gospel - don’t see him making the blatant appeals to self promotion. But I can see how you might connect his overall focus as such.

Don’t know if I would do today with Covey’s material what I did 12 years ago, but I don’t think my extract and supplementation in any way promotes that heresy. The Scriptures cited are not those abused by the prosperity gospel pimps but such as glorify God, focus on humility, and the brotherhood of Christ.

To be effective is not evil. At what you desire to be effective determines that. Was the Lord Jesus “highly effective”? I should think so, although not in the sense Covey was writing about.

[reagandemocrat]

Thank you. I wish you well on your trip.

RD

[LurkingSince'98]

Would you spend money on a book written by John Calvin? I am not willing to spend money on RCC dogma, but am more than willing to read it.”

So you are admitting that a book written in the third century contains Roman Catholic Dogma as you put it???

The Catholic Church is the One True Church since our writers go back to the third century and before.

Lurking

[Manfred the Wonder Dawg]

The RCC is NOT the one true church. Everyone saved by the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ is part of the one true Church. No religion (Roman, Orthodox, Protestant) or denomination can claim that status, as Christ respects no man nor anything man creates.

[LurkingSince'98]

But Manfred you are the one who said you couldn’t read the third century book by Eusibius because it was just RCC dogma.

You won’t read it because it is quite contrary to your world view that the Catholic Church is the one true Church having an unbroken ordination of our priests from the time of Peter.

You won’t read Eusibius’ 1700 year old book because it will
flatly reject your worldview.

Protestants can’t read Eusibius because to you his words are like garlic to a vampire.

You won’t do it because you will certainly get Catholic cooties.

Lurking’

[Manfred the Wonder Dawg]

I’ve read enough RCC doctrine/dogma/propaganda to know it isn’t worth spending money the Lord entrusted to me on. I’ve read enough to know there are many holes in the historical claims of the RCC, in addition to the unbiblical doctrines such as your priesthood, your mass/Eucharist, and much, much more.

Vain traditions of men.

I am reading, on-line, Eusebius’ “Church History”.

I urge you to re-think the comparisons you use. They portray a presumptuous (sinful) attitude.

I didn’t know RCC had cooties - I thought ya’ll simply had heretical, apostate doctrines and dogmas.

[trisham]

you are preaching to those who have been taught by the Apostles and their appointed successors

***********************

Amen, friend.

[narses]

You can harden your heart, you can ignore 2,000+ years of historical record, you can claim divine insight that makes you and only you arbiter of all things Christian. That doesn't make it true. Those of us taught by Our Lord through the Apostles He appointed and through the successors He Ordained and gave authority to know better. False prophets and those claiming the mantle without the authority are tiny cymbals playing in the wind.+

Freep-mail me to get on or off my pro-life and Catholic List:

Add me / Remove me

Please ping me to note-worthy Pro-Life or Catholic threads, or other threads of interest.

[Marysecretary]

Of course, I would have no idea. Lurkers might be the only ones they influence.

[Marysecretary]

Sounds good to me!

[SoothingDave]

The old maxim is still true: “You catch more flies with honey than vinegar.”

[magisterium]

Thank you for your kind words. I don't think that I'm simply letting them get my goat, though. I am genuinely outraged at the manifest unfairness, especially when juxtaposed against "our side's" near-total lack of reciprocation. But, even, more, I am appalled that so many Catholic are posting articles on doctrinal subjects without protecting them against what very often becomes sacrilege, and sometimes blasphemy to boot. Not to caucus such threads is almost a solicitation for sacrilege when some topics are so predictably ripe for the dreadful responses that flood the "discussion."

Many of our separated brethren claim that I'm attempting to stifle "discussion." I am not! By definition, when a thread has been "hijacked," it has already been yanked from the discussion of the original article into something else, either derivative to the article or (usually) otherwise. Further, the vile characterizations that virtually riddle certain posters' ravings create an inherently hostile climate; "discussion" and "honest debate" have nothing to do with it! I would rather see the alleged adults on this forum learn how to actually debate and discuss the issues at hand. Were this a serious possibility, then nothing would need to be caucused.

Then there is the issue of "bad witness." All of this awful mudslinging, whether done by Protestants or the relatively rare Catholic offender, cannot possibly produce any good fruit among the doubtless hundreds of lurkers who come to the FR religion forum looking for guidance or answers. I should think that this byproduct would be earnestly avoided by all the people on this forum who call themselves committed Christians!

You're right, of course, that it would often be better and easier to simply ignore these people. But it would be easier still to deny them the opportunity to commit sacrileges, blasphemies, deliberate misrepresentations and character assassinations by caucusing more of the doctrinal material in the first place, until such time, at least, when it can supposed that various known people here can start acting like adults.

For the record, I fully understand that there are certain criteria that must be met for caucusing threads, and I understand clearly that even some of our doctrinal material may contain references that render caucusing impossible. There are two options: the article can be edited to bring it into conformity with the rules, or it is simply an open thread. If the material cannot be caucused, then all I ask for from the "other side" is the "reasonable discussion and debate" that they always harp about. But that, I assert, is manifestly not what they tend to engage in! I am confident that people of good will can certainly see the overall situation for what it is.

Finally, I am more angry than frustrated, and, frankly, I am probably more angry with our own than with the other side, even though, in this thread, I've gone around and around more with the latter. It simply boggles my mind how seemingly intelligent people can leave even God Himself (as He wishes to be known), as well as elements of His holy Faith (as He handed it to us) subject to the vile attacks for which we have seen literally hundreds of precedents. If they are motivated by "openness," they are badly mistaken that reasonableness and decorum generally ensue through their liberality. I simply don't get that they "don't get it."

But thank you for your citation of Psalm 2! It was surely meant to provide a meditation and a comfort in just such situations as this!

[wmfights]

On these threads anyone who believes that God’s grace is always with us is mocked.

What an interesting observation. We should be rejoicing with the "good news" but instead we are mocked.

[B-Chan]

You’re right.

I believe that, deep in their hearts, all Christians long for the comfort of the Sacraments and the authority of the Pope. However, to submit to that authority would be an intolerable insult to their pride; to admit that 500 years of rebellion were misspent would be a seeming insult to the “reformers” they have been taught to revere.

So they cling to the teachings of the rebels, and suffer.

Our separated Protestant (etc.) bretheren are not our enemies. They are fellow Christians in need. Instead of trying to argue them back into the Church, it is our duty to love them and do what we can within the bounds of charity to reunite them with the Sacraments.

God is drawing His lost sheep back to the fold in a powerful way; the Anglican heresy is already disintegrating, and it will not be long before other “denominations” begin to crumble as well. No house built upon sand can long survive. Let us cling to the Rock, Peter, and to the Lord who founded His Church upon that Rock, and help our lost fellow sinners find their way home.