All Roads Lead To Rome (A Southern Baptist's Journey into the Catholic Church)

Confiteordeo ^ | John David Young

[LurkingSince'98]

Hi Oliver,

I believe your problem is a temporal (earthly) versus infinite (heavenly) one.

On earth we are bound by earthly laws, ie. time marches on, so little time, not enough time, no time.

In heaven, where the Infinite reigns there is no time, God, Mary and the saints don’t get overloaded by prayers to them. They all exist in the eternal NOW and experience all past, present and future as NOW.

Therefor they have all eternity to hear and intercede for us.

This is the same reason that the Catholic Church re-presents the Christ’s death and Life at the Consecration of the bread and wine into His Body and Blood - Christ is still being sacrificed in Ininite time in heaven (real time to us mortals)

Regards,
Lurking’

[Tax-chick]

My impression looking at his pic is that he has/had a big heart of love, sensitivity and compassion but often kept it hidden behind a brusque exterior.

Good observations! However, Dad's really much more peaceful than his "picture face" there indicates :-). My mother said that picture looked like both he and Sally were sitting on pins!

[Tax-chick]

Your post points out some failings of mine ... but don’t worry, I think it’s *good* to be reminded!

[wmfights]

I was raised catholic, gave my life to Christ in a Baptist church and attend a non-denominational church. If something in my spirit checks me during or after hearing my Pastors teaching, I confirm or deny it by reading the scriptures - period.

God Bless you.

FWIW, I followed a similar path except it was the Episcopal Church I was raised in.

[LurkingSince'98]

Ininite = Infinite

[wmfights]

And from a secular standpoint, the conservative movement would be dead without the unity of Catholics and Evangelicals.

Other than social issues what unity with the conservative movement are RC's in unity with Evangelicals?

[wagglebee]

Other than social issues what unity with the conservative movement are RC's in unity with Evangelicals?

Are you denying that the Catholic Church preaches the Gospel?

[Alamo-Girl]

Thank you so much for sharing your insights and testimony, dear brother in Christ!

As you suggest - and Scripture affirms - there is only ONE Great Commandment and there are only two commandments upon which all the law and prophets "hang:"

Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. This is the first and great commandment.

And the second [is] like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets. – Matthew 22:37-40

We ought to check every thought against those commandments. As you said:

We have the God-given CAPACITY—if we are the least bit healthy and the least bit mature—to hold the information out at arm’s length FIRST—pray about our responses—FIRST and then RESPOND vs react.

If our priorities are messed up, what Spiritual fruit can come of whatever we are about to say or do?

But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law. - Galatians 5:22-23

To God be the glory!

[ItsOurTimeNow]

As I’ve been several rounds with many of you over these points, I’ve resorted to simply attaching the following link.

The Catholic Chronicles, by Keith Green:

http://www.gracegems.org/7/catholic_chronicles.htm

[Mad Dawg]

It's noted.

[Uncle Chip]

Are you denying that the Catholic Church preaches the Gospel?

It might "preach" it at times, but "believing" it is another matter.

("A political party cannot be all things to all people." -- Ronald Reagan, 3/1/75)

Neither can a church -- a believing church.

[DungeonMaster]

All Roads Lead To Rome (A Southern Baptist's Journey into the Catholic Church)

Wide is the path that leads to Rome and there are many who find it.

[Quix]

Thanks for your kind words.

Your posts have zinged me some redemptive ones at times too.

LOL.

[Quix]

Thank you for your encouragements, Dear Sister in Christ.

[NYer]

As I’ve been several rounds with many of you over these points, I’ve resorted to simply attaching the following link.

Thank you! Most interesting article, replete with errors. For example, the author writes:

idea of a physical presence was vaguely held by some, such as Ambrose

The earliest text concerning the Real Presence is found in Paul's first epistle to the Corinthians, written about 57AD, or 27 years after Christ's death. Paul's Eucharistic teaching in 1 Corinthians leaves us in no doubt. "For this is what I received from the Lord and in turn passed on to you: That on the same night as he was betrayed, the Lord Jesus took some bread, and thanked God for it, and broke it, and he said, 'This is my body which is for you; do this as a memorial of me.' In the same way he took the cup after supper and said, 'This cup is a new covenant in my blood. Whenever you drink it, do this as a memorial of me.' Until the Lord comes, therefore, every time you eat this bread and drink this cup, you are proclaiming his death. And so anyone who eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord unworthily will be behaving unworthily toward the body and blood of the Lord. Everyone is to recollect himself before eating this bread and drinking this cup, because a person who eats and drinks without recognizing the body is eating and drinking his own condemnation" (1 Cor. 11:23-29).

In the previous chapter the apostle wrote, "The blessing-cup that we bless is a communion with the blood of Christ, and the bread that we break is communion with the body of Christ" (1 Cor. 11:16). His words are clear. The only possible meaning is that the bread and wine at the consecration become Christ's actual body and blood. Evidently Paul believed that the words Christ had said at the Last Supper, "This is my Body," meant that really and physically the bread is his body. In fact Christ was not merely saying that the bread was his body; he was decreeing that it should be so and that it is so.

Let's put this to the test. Is the consecrated host truly the Body of our Lord Jesus Christ. Over the centuries, there have always been doubters, including priests. The first and greatest Eucharistic Miracle of the Catholic Church took place in Lanciano Italy in the 8th century. During Holy Mass, after the two-fold consecration, the host was changed into live Flesh and the wine was changed into live Blood, which coagulated into five globules, irregular and differing in shape and size. It physically changed in appearance.

Various ecclesiastical investigation ("Recognitions") were conducted since 1574.

In 1970-'71 and taken up again partly in 1981 there took place a scientific investigation by the most illustrious scientist Prof. Odoardo Linoli, eminent Professor in Anatomy and Pathological Histology and in Chemistry and Clinical Microscopy. He was assisted by Prof. Ruggero Bertelli of the University of Siena.

The analyses were conducted with absolute and unquestionable scientific precision and they were documented with a series of microscopic photographs.
These analyses sustained the following conclusions:

• The Flesh is real Flesh. The Blood is real Blood.
  
  
• The Flesh and the Blood belong to the human species.
  
  
• The Flesh consists of the muscular tissue of the heart.
  
  
• In the Flesh we see present in section: the myocardium, the endocardium, the vagus nerve and also the left ventricle of the heart for the large thickness of the myocardium.
  
  
• The Flesh is a "HEART" complete in its essential structure.
  
  
• The Flesh and the Blood have the same blood-type: AB (Blood-type identical to that which Prof. Baima Bollone uncovered in the Holy Shroud of Turin).
  
  
• In the Blood there were found proteins in the same normal proportions (percentage-wise) as are found in the sero-proteic make-up of the fresh normal blood.
  
  
• In the Blood there were also found these minerals: chlorides, phosphorus, magnesium, potassium, sodium and calcium.
  
  
• The preservation of the Flesh and of the Blood, which were left in their natural state for twelve centuries and exposed to the action of atmospheric and biological agents, remains an extraordinary phenomenon.

---

 

	Fig. 1 - Eosine x 200. Overall histological aspect of a Flesh sample with fibers collected in bundles with longitudinal orientation as it occurs in the outer surface layers of the heart.
	Fig. 2 - Miracle Heart in Lanciano. Mallory x 250. An artery and, very close, a branch of the vagal nerve.
	Fig. 3 - Miracle Heart in Lanciano. Mallory x 400. Evidence of the "Rough" aspect of the endocardium; the syncytoid structure of the myocardial tissue
	Fig. 4 - Elution-absorption test x 80. Above: Hemagglutination test on blood sample in Lanciano: on the left, anti A serum used; on the right, anti-B serum. Below: hemoagglutination test on a Flesh sample in Lanciano: left, with anti-A serum, right,with anti-B serum. It appears thus that the Flesh and the Blood in Lanciano belong to AB blood group.
	Fig. 5 - Electro-phoretic pattern of Blood proteins (Cromoscan photometer). The profile of serum fractions is normal and superimposable to that of a fresh serum sample.

In conclusion, it may be said that Science, when called upon to testify, has given a certain and thorough response as regards the authenticity of the Eucharistic Miracle of Lanciano.

---

There will always be skeptics, like St. Thomas, who will not accept or believe until they have have seen (John 20:24-29).

[Quix]

I’m thankfull that there are

NONRUBBERIZED histories around . . .

“WHEN DID THIS TEACHING BEGIN?”
The teaching of transubstantiation does not date back to the Last Supper as most Catholics suppose. It was a controversial topic for many centuries before officially becoming an article of faith (which means that it is essential to salvation according to Rome). The idea of a physical presence was vaguely held by some, such as Ambrose, but it was not until 831 A.D. that Paschasius Radbertus, a Benedictine Monk, published a treatise openly advocating the doctrine. Even then, for almost another four centuries, theological war was waged over this teaching by bishops and people alike, until at the Fourth Lateran Council in 1215 A.D., it was officially defined and canonized as a dogma (A “Dogma” is a teaching or doctrine that can never be reversed or repealed. It is equal in authority to the Bible) by Pope Innocent III.

The historian Tertullian tells us that when this doctrine first began to be taught in the Middle Ages, that the priests took great care that no crumb should fall lest the body of Jesus be hurt, or even eaten by a mouse or a dog! There were quite serious discussions as to what should be done if a person were to vomit after receiving the sacrament. At the Council of Constance, it was argued that if a communicant spilled some of the blood on his beard, both beard and the man should be destroyed by burning! (The Other Side of Rome, p. 21) (By the end of the eleventh century, lest someone should spill God’s blood, some in the church began to hold back the cup from the people, and finally in 1415, the Council of Constance officially denied the cup to laymen. Although today, by decree of the Vatican, churches may now offer the cup optionally to communicants.)

[Quix]

Perhaps it relates to the Scripture:

ACCORDING TO YOUR FAITH, SO BE IT UNTO YOU

covers more territory than some suppose.

OR

Perhaps it’s another example of the fallen angels/ nephilium/ watchers concocting another counterfeit miracle.

[gpapa]

My mother was Greek Orthodox, my father Irish Roman Catholic.