Posted on 01/27/2008 7:56:14 PM PST by Manfred the Wonder Dawg
2. Let us show, therefore as was proposed in the first place, that in the mass intolerable blasphemy and insult are offered to Christ. For he was not appointed Priest and Pontiff by the Fathers for a time merely, as priests were appointed under the Old Testament. Since their life was mortal, their priesthood could not be immortal, and hence there was need of successors, who might ever and anon be substituted in the room of the dead. But Christ being immortal, had not the least occasion to have a vicar substituted for him. Wherefore he was appointed by his Father a priest for ever, after the order of Melchizedek, that he might eternally exercise a permanent priesthood. This mystery had been typified long before in Melchizedek, whom Scripture, after once introducing as the priest of the living God, never afterwards mentions, as if he had had no end of life. In this way Christ is said to be a priest after his order. But those who sacrifice daily must necessarily give the charge of their oblations to priests, whom they surrogate as the vicars and successors of Christ. By this subrogation they not only rob Christ of his honour, and take from him the prerogative of an eternal priesthood, but attempt to remove him from the right hand of his Father, where he cannot sit immortal without being an eternal priest. Nor let them allege that their priestlings are not substituted for Christ, as if he were dead, but are only substitutes in that eternal priesthood, which therefore ceases not to exist. The words of the apostle are too stringent to leave them any means of evasion, viz., "They truly were many priests, because they were not suffered to continue by reason of death: but this man, because he continueth ever, has an unchangeable priesthood," (Heb. 7: 23, 24.) Yet such is their dishonesty, that to defend their impiety they arm themselves with the example of Melchizedek. As he is said to have "brought forth (obtulisse) bread and wine," (Gen. 14: 18,) they infer that it was a prelude to their mass, as if there was any resemblance between him and Christ in the offering of bread and wine. This is too silly and frivolous to need refutation. Melchizedek gave bread and wine to Abraham and his companions, that he might refresh them when worn out with the march and the battle. What has this to do with sacrifice? The humanity of the holy king is praised by Moses: these men absurdly coin a mystery of which there is no mention. They, however, put another gloss upon their error, because it is immediately added, he was "priest of the most high God." I answer, that they erroneously wrest to bread and wine what the apostle refers to blessing. "This Melchizedek, king of Salem, priest of the most high God, who met Abraham," "and blessed him." Hence the same apostle (and a better interpreter cannot be desired) infers his excellence. "Without all contradiction, the less is blessed of the better." But if the oblation of Melchizedek was a figure of the sacrifice of the mass, I ask, would the apostle, who goes into the minutes details, have forgotten a matter so grave and serious? Now, however they quibble, it is in vain for them to attempt to destroy the argument which is adduced by the apostle himself viz., that the right and honour of the priesthood has ceased among mortal men, because Christ, who is immortal, is the one perpetual priest...1. By these and similar inventions, Satan has attempted to adulterate and envelop the sacred Supper of Christ as with thick darkness, that its purity might not be preserved in the Church. But the head of this horrid abomination was, when he raised a sign by which it was not only obscured and perverted, but altogether obliterated and abolished, vanished away and disappeared from the memory of man; namely, when, with most pestilential error, he blinded almost the whole world into the belief that the Mass was a sacrifice and oblation for obtaining the remission of sins. I say nothing as to the way in which the sounder schoolmen at first received this dogma. I leave them with their puzzling subtleties which, however they may be defended by cavilling, are to be repudiated by all good men, because all they do is to envelop the brightness of the Supper in great darkness. Bidding adieu to them, therefore, let my readers understand that I am here combating that opinion with which the Roman Antichrist and his prophets have imbued the whole world, viz., that the mass is a work by which the priest who offers Christ, and the others who in the oblation receive him, gain merit with God, or that it is an expiatory victim by which they regain the favour of God. And this is not merely the common opinion of the vulgar, but the very act has been so arranged as to be a kind of propitiation, by which satisfaction is made to God for the living and the dead. This is also expressed by the words employed, and the same thing may be inferred from daily practice. I am aware how deeply this plague has struck its roots; under what a semblance of good it conceals its true character, bearing the name of Christ before it, and making many believe that under the single name of Mass is comprehended the whole sum of faith. But when it shall have been most clearly proved by the word of God, that this mass, however glossed and splendid, offers the greatest insult to Christ, suppresses and buries his cross, consigns his death to oblivion, takes away the benefit which it was designed to convey, enervates and dissipates the sacrament, by which the remembrance of his death was retained, will its roots be so deep that this most powerful axe, the word of God, will not cut it down and destroy it? Will any semblance be so specious that this light will not expose the lurking evil?
Amen! "Preach the word in season and out."
The Roman Catholic Church and the EO are surely Sheep pens(john ch 10) as by the way are, all “other” denominations.. The shepherd is at the door calling to them to COME OUT.. because the eklesia is/are the called out ones.. Called out of all kinds of pens.. Discovering thje “operators” or elements of a sheep pen can be fun.. What are the ALLS?.. “dogma”, “ceremonys”, “sacraments”, “culture”, “tradition”, or all of those things and more..
I'd be very impressed by your zeal for God if I didn't know you were wrong.
“My construction on that Scripture is that the meek will be all that’s left.”
You are right. I’ve been to parties where they were all that were left.
John Calvin’s chapter 18 was of the devil.
I give my salvation if this is not true.
This would mean I would be unable to love anyone if John Calvin is correct.
I would lay down my life for you to rebuke John Calvin , Dear Sister.
I made my point. The Bishops joined the anti-war left on the Congress.
Now define liberalism or one has to live with the current understanding of the term which includes the “left”.
Thanks much for your pings.
Good posts and points.
INDEED.
AMEN. AMEN!
LOL.
You made no point that point in regards to the teachings of the Catholic Church
“Now define liberalism “
Define protestantism? It is freedom to do whatever “YOU” think the Bible tells you to do
Liberalism is freedom to sin.
Does protesatantism teach that masterbation is a grave sin?
Does protestantism teach against watching shows like Desperate houswives etc.. and consider it a sin to even watch these type of shows?
The Iraq war does not even pale in comparison to allowing these immoral sins to enter your household and effect your children and other family members.
Focusing on this country as if it is protected by God is one of the worse sins anyone could ever imagine!
Did you just deny that Christ died? So do Muslims, and they are an offshoot of Arianism. They say His death was only an "act."
Thanks for putting all your cards on the table, hosepipe. I take it you would not describe yourself as a "Christian," would you?
I doubt that God is the cause of your illness. The Protestants have a perverse notion that God is the source of evil (they get it from the OT myths), and that He uses evil for greater good.
After all, we are the sick, and He is the physician. Doctors don't give you diseases. They cure them.
But I agree most sgtrongly that we should give thanks to God, no matter what happens to us in our fallen world. He didn't cause it be fallen. We did.
All those churches did not believe one and the same thing. What do you think St. Paul's epistles are all about? They are directed as deviant "churches."
They all differed in terms of the Holy Trinity or Christology. Those are not relative terms.
Why do you say this? The fact that we disagree on the what precisely The Church is, are you saying that no one who does not know Christ can be Righteous? Does that mean that the OT Righteous "knew" Christ? That seems rather presumptuous frankly. Perhaps I am misunderstanding you?
That's exactly what I'm saying. :) Now, "knowing Christ" does not necessarily mean being able to recite C-H-R-I-S-T, and knowing everything that we know about Him. But, "knowing Christ" is necessary for righteousness and salvation:
Rom 10:9-13 : 9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. 10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. 11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed. [Isa. 28:16] 12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him. 13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. KJV
This passage does not represent some kind of changing of the rules. It applies to those in the OT as well. Some people believe that the first appearance of Christ in the Bible is in the NT. Nothing could be further from the truth. He appeared and His existence was known all over the OT.
Well Kosta.. YOU CAN KILL GOD?... If god can be killt he ain't god.. Jesus flesh may have died(or not) but Jesus didnt die(Jesus is a Spirit(Gospel)).. Just as when you're flesh dies YOU wont die either.. you will live forever somewhere.. because you are a spirit too..
Its all about dividing flesh from spirit.. God is Spirit, angels are spirit, even Satan is spirit, and dear Kosta you too are spirit.. Its all very spiritual..
Jesus was alive as Spirit long before Mary was a gleam in her fathers eye.. He still is Spirit.. When you confuse the human spirit with the Space Suit of the human spirit(i.e.flesh).. You became good ground for many errors..
God is Spirit and those that worship him must do so in spirit and reality.. (MUST)..
In our SBC church, the local church itself ordains those deemed worthy, and approved by the laity, to both the deaconate and "to preach the Gospel". The latter usually happens when someone is preparing to go off to seminary. I don't know if SBC seminaries require it or not, probably not, but it's nice to go off with the support of one's church.
There is plenty of "satire" to go around when it comes to both camps. Bottom line is this: are you safer now then you were eight years ago? Do we have fewer or greater number of potential terrorists in the country as a result of unchecked southern borders? Aiding the terrorirsts could be done by not doing enough too, FK.
Oh, so I guess that Kosta WAS you
It's just satire, FK...you seem to find it objectionable when I use HER method, yet you find apology in hers.
IOW, you know you strongly dislike her, but you have no idea why. Hey, that kind of sounds like the Orthodox approach to faith itself!
No that would be more like being Reformed and just saying "I have no clue, it was given to me."
that does not mean we should get lost in romantic notions of perfection.
Then we are not "dead" to sin, FK. No matter how you turn it, it's patently false.
God created a perfect world and our sin corupted it.
Of course believers are going to sin from time to time, but that mindset does not RULE us. God does
God rules our sinful minds? God causes us to sin? Oh, wait, I forgot, we are just robots...of course...mind control...
Well, Mark perhaps jumped in on this, but I did have this conversation with you and Forest Keeper. Maybe you need to refresh your memory?
If you agree with Mark now that Christ was Only addressing the apostles and not the eager throngs who were assembled to hear Him as Scripture tells us
The Scripture tells us "His disciples came to him, and he began to teach them..." The disciples are the immediate subject here, and "them" refers to the disciples. Besides, one doe snot preach to the crowds sitting down. Maybe Presbyterians do, I don't know, but most speakers addressing a larger audience stand.
Praise God and AMEN! Those words have always done the job just fine for me. They seem very straightforward and very self-contained. I can't imagine how many hundreds of pages longer the average Apostolic Bible would be if it actually said the words that are interpreted to the Bibles we use today. In just this area alone, behind all of God's promises would have to be a giant UNLESS, and then three paragraphs of exceptions that allow man to fill in all of the holes God left, but never said anything about. I guess salvation is too big a gig for man not to be the star. :)
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