Posted on 01/27/2008 7:56:14 PM PST by Manfred the Wonder Dawg
It’s the story of my life.
Because, maybe, in the back of your mind, you know that it is singificant although not desirable in your preconceived picture of the development of Christianity?
From your above, it sounds like you are saying that Christians didn't believe that Christ was God until John was written 60 or 70 years after the fact. Is that right?
We can only speculate what was taught orally. And we can hope that what was taught orally is the same thing that was written down later on, beginning after 70 AD (destruction of Jerusalem's Temple).
Unless something changed between 33 AD and after 70 AD, and the Epistles and Synoptic Gospels took a u-turn, Christ is not specifically called God (again "Lord" is not exclusively used for God), and neither is the Spirit of God. Son of God and Spirit of God are Jewish terms interpreted by Christians in a different fashion as, for instance, the word "cool" has evolved into something other than indicating ambient temperature.
History tells us that calling Christ or any human for that matter "God" in Israel would have bee taken as utmost blasphemy and would have meant an automatic death, by stoning or otherwise. So, obviously the followers of Christ could not go to synagogues they attended and preached Jesus to be God.
So, neither do the early Gospels, nor the Epistles explicitly call Christ "God," nor did they treat Him as deity. In the time span, between the Synoptic Gospels and St. John's Gospel (20-30 years), something happened.
At the tail end of that time span, the rabbis rejected everything Christian (Jamnia), and instituted a daily prayer cursing "heretics" (minim), as the last remnants of the Church were evicted from the synagogues.
It is rather obvious that Christians, in time, did come to believe that Christ is God (they sure didn't in Acts 1!), and that Son of God in His case was not just a title reserved for the angles and kings (as in Judaism) but literally means God's only begotten Son, God of God, True Light of True Light, of one essence as the Father, as the Creed was was later formulated, just as they, in time, came to believe that the Holy Spirit is not just the "power of God" (Judaic meaning), but actually God Himself, co-eternal and co-substantial with the Father and the Son.
Synoptic Gospels express Christ's humanity as much as, some 20-30 years laterfree form constraints of Judaism, and Sanhedrin, St. John's Gospel expresses Christ's divinity.
But we also know that St. Paul's Epistles do not call him God, but an image of God (as one would expect from second Adam, a perfect man), even though Paul was not constrained by Israel's rule of the Sanhedrin, which tells us that Christ's divinity is something that became gradually known because, as the Holy Apostle reminds us, we "see dimly" now and things become clearer as we continue life in Christ.
The fact that the Epistles of St. Paul express the same humanity of Christ and not His divinity as the Synaptic Gospels gives us every reason to believe that the Synaptic Gospels, when they were written some 40 years after the Crucfixion, reflected what was taught up to that point in Christian history, and that St. John's Gospel is a new development in Christian understanding of Christ as fully divine as well as fully human.
One second after I stepped off, I KNEW I trusted my skills and my ropes.
Then I went for a stretch without doing any rope work at all. I had to learn to trust all over again.
IN closing, I'd just like to say
DOE SNOT
lol.
Matthew 11:18, Luke 7:33, John 10:20. And a house divided against itself cannot stand.
Thank you. Exactly! The solipsistic culture that has become the "standard" of all truth is an outgrowth of "me-myself-and-I" way of lifestyle we have particualry favor in America for some 40-50 years now.
That way you can be "Catholic" or "Orthodox" but not really adhere to all of its premises and teachings. You can make it your own "PC religion" and it's just as "good" any any other version of it...
Solipsim feeds the ego, and with itpride. Such deception cannot possibly come from God. First you are assured that all your sins are forgiven, no matter what; your salvation is assured, no matter what, only if you recite the "magic words" (Jesus is my Savior) and you get dunked although it doesn't save, the way one "becomes" a Muslim by reciting the "magic words" "There is not God but Allah, and Mohammad is his prophet" three times! The similarity is glaring.
It actually "makes sense" to our fallen souls (and yet one cursory look around and above us reminds us that nothing in the Creation is the way we would or could make it).
It's too simple, too easy. Yet it has appeal just because of that, because we want to be sure and secure and promised eternal glory, because no one wants to die and suffer in eternity. So, by elevating ourselves above all others, in our mind, we re-create the Creation in our own image and to our own taste.
Sadly, the desire of man to distance himself from the glory of God is ancient:
And [till] Moses had done speaking with them, he put a vail on his face. But when Moses went in before the LORD to speak with him, he took the vail off, until he came out. And he came out, and spake unto the children of Israel [that] which he was commanded. And the children of Israel saw the face of Moses, that the skin of Moses' face shone: and Moses put the vail upon his face again, until he went in to speak with him. Exodus 34:29-35
In him was life; and the life was the light of men. And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not. John 1:4-5
He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved. But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God. John 3:18-21
Ye are the light of the world. A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid. Neither do men light a candle, and put it under a bushel, but on a candlestick; and it giveth light unto all that are in the house. Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven. Matthew 5:14-16
For ye were sometimes darkness, but now [are ye] light in the Lord: walk as children of light: - Ephesians 5:8
The LORD [is] my light and my salvation; whom shall I fear? the LORD [is] the strength of my life; of whom shall I be afraid? - Psalms 27:1
Then spake Jesus again unto them, saying, I am the light of the world: he that followeth me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life. John 8:12
Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness. I Thessalonians 5:5
Again, a new commandment I write unto you, which thing is true in him and in you: because the darkness is past, and the true light now shineth. He that saith he is in the light, and hateth his brother, is in darkness even until now. He that loveth his brother abideth in the light, and there is none occasion of stumbling in him. 1 John 2:8-10
If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire. I Corinthians 3:15
For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water: Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished: But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men. 2 Peter 3:5-7
See that ye refuse not him that speaketh. For if they escaped not who refused him that spake on earth, much more [shall not] we [escape], if we turn away from him that [speaketh] from heaven: Whose voice then shook the earth: but now he hath promised, saying, Yet once more I shake not the earth only, but also heaven. And this [word], Yet once more, signifieth the removing of those things that are shaken, as of things that are made, that those things which cannot be shaken may remain. Wherefore we receiving a kingdom which cannot be moved, let us have grace, whereby we may serve God acceptably with reverence and godly fear: For our God [is] a consuming fire. Hebrews 12:25-29
more chuckles. This is found where in scripture? Or was it channelled to your desert monls?
I have no idea what RINO is, but whatever you are saying sounds positiviley somehting I remember form communism (same "official truth").
And, for the record: I DETEST Ann Coulter.
Doe snot. Just sayin'.
My mantra is that faith and reason are complementary but reason cannot substitute for faith.
For it is written, I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and will bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent.
Where [is] the wise? where [is] the scribe? where [is] the disputer of this world? hath not God made foolish the wisdom of this world? For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.
For the Jews require a sign, and the Greeks seek after wisdom: But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness; But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God.
Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men; and the weakness of God is stronger than men. - I Corinthians 1:18-25
For my people have committed two evils; they have forsaken me the fountain of living waters, [and] hewed them out cisterns, broken cisterns, that can hold no water. Jeremiah 2:13
If I thought the Catholic Church was hazardous to their Spiritual health, I certainly would have said so.
But the Catholic Church is an exclusive club as hosepipe is wont to say. The subtext is our way or the highway. Nevertheless, if the Spirit led me to join that club, I would. But He hasnt. And for that, the local priest ought to be thanking God because I would surely be a disruption since if I were a member, I would challenge every dogma, every doctrine, every sacrament, every tradition that serves as a wedge or even a veil between God and man.
Of a Truth, there is only one Way, Jesus Christ. And the Catholic Church is not God.
Republican-In-Name-Only.. Socialist in Capitalist clothing..
Good analogy, thanks. Of course I’m going to steal it, but take this as a thanks for the many times I’ll use it in the future.
DOH!..
Often overlooked is this operative phrase:
But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know [them], because they are spiritually discerned. - I Corinthians 2:14
Why do ye not understand my speech? [even] because ye cannot hear my word. John 8:43
To God be the glory!
“Or was it channelled to your desert monls?”
It came from one of our monks...one of the monks who channeled the HS and came up with the canon of the NT for you folks to thump. :)
lol
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