Posted on 01/27/2008 7:56:14 PM PST by Manfred the Wonder Dawg
What about it? Is it important that every "i" is dotted and every "t" crossed? The important thing is, as +John Chrysostom said:
But if there be anything touching times or places, which they have related differently, this nothing injures the truth of what they have said. And these things too, so far as God shall enable us, we will endeavor, as we proceed, to point out; requiring you, together with what we have mentioned, to observe, that in the chief heads, those which constitute our life and furnish out our doctrine, nowhere is any of them found to have disagreed, no not ever so little.
But what are these points? Such as follow: That God became man, that He wrought miracles, that He was crucified, that He was buried, that He rose again, that He ascended, that He will judge, that He hath given commandments tending to salvation, that He hath brought in a law not contrary to the Old Testament, that He is a Son, that He is only-begotten, that He is a true Son, that He is of the same substance with the Father, and as many things as are like these; for touching these we shall find that there is in them a full agreement.
The point is that all this actually happened, at a very specific time and place in actual history. You referenced the Creed about the Holy Spirit, the "Lord, the Giver of Life," and that same Creed attests to this specific historical reality with the words "under Pontius Pilate." It happened. "I believe..."
Now, if you really care about dotting every "i" and crossing every "t", +Augustine attempted to do just that.
Jesus never used the word(meme) heretic..
Only prideful arrogant men in Rome and to be honest other places do that..
The Kool Aid in Rome has a strange taste..
Yet you accuse others of having ESP.
I was with you up until you qualified it.
Why does it bother you If there were certain gnostic things that the Church might have destroyed?
My question dealt with how you justify destroying things under the auspices of the magisterium. Because God told them to? How do you know? Did God give them an explicit, "secret" command to destroy things held by others who claimed to have a "secret" knowledge? How ironic...
This happened a long time ago when this kind of thing was the norm. We have different assumptions associated with our age and are guilty of many sins ourselves, so we dare not judge them personally lest we be judged. But that doesn't change the fact that it was wrong.
I doubt you would have no problem destroying pornography in the name of God. Right?
Apples and oranges. The first case dealt with books, or written words. Why would words need to be countered with force?
But to answer your question: No, I do not think that God "calls" us (or whatever) to break into other people's homes and enforce a morality code. Good laws do not make good men, and the ends do not justify the means.
I'm sorry to hear that. It happens to often and the only people who win are the lawyers. I hope any children caught in the middle are okay.
Neither of these are proof of (or against) God.
Only if you're not looking.
This is pretty powerful stuff. I think you can make a case that to not preach THE GOSPEL when given the opportunity is to deny Jesus.
No. Mainly I learned it from the Gospel of Saint John:
I am the good shepherd, and know my sheep, and am known of mine.I particularly desire to draw your attention to verse 16.As the Father knoweth me, even so I know the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep.
And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd. -- John 10:14–16
Also recently I have had inspiration along ecumenical lines from Pope John Paul II and Pope Benedict XVI....
Good grief, Kolokotronis, how on earth did you manage to connect those dots??? A-G, last I checked, hadn't rejected the Church! That would be to reject Christ, and that she could never ever do!!!
You can take my word for it. Or not. Your judgment in this redounds on you.
Is the above biblical?
I ask that as a Roman Catholic, who is often criticized by members of the reformed sects for honoring the tradition of Magisterium of the Church....
Did you learn that from the Screwtape Letter?..
Forgive me Kolokotronis, but in my view the pride in this case is all yours. AG is not "outside The Church." Unless you mean to say that The Church itself is God, displacing God Himself.
I'll hazard she doesn't believe that any more than I do.
Churches, however divinely inspired, are still human institutions, and so susceptible to sin, to judgments made by fallen human nature....
I do not place my safety in human institutions. And I doubt AG does either. That seems to be the point you continue to miss.
BTW, I don't think this makes me a "disrespecter of churches," let alone of God.
Quite the contrary!
And so I join my dearest sister in Christ in saying: All glory be to God!
No problem, sfassisi! I very much enjoyed hearing from you. :^)
Jeepers, hosepipe -- are you sourcing the statement you captioned in your last to me?
LOL!!!
However, that very thing does seem to be at the bottom of The Screwtape Letters.
Take heed, people.
God's blessings be with you always, dear brother in Christ!
Did you learn that from the Screwtape Letter?..
“Is the above biblical?”
Not that I am aware of. +Nilus of Sinai, though a noted theologian and biblical scholar of his time, also wrote from his own ascetical experience. Does something need to be “biblical” to be of value to our theosis, bb? Surely you haven’t fallen that far from the Magisterium, have you?
+Nilus was canonized by The Church; the one which established the canon of the NT. He is considered an Eastern Father. That is sufficient for any Catholic absent a demonstration that a teaching of a Father is outside the consensus patrum. Are you aware of anything written by +Nilus which is outside the consensus patrum, bb? You may not like what he said; there is no question but that he would soundly and loudly reject any notion of a sort of Universalism in Christianity; in fact, just as both the Latin Church and Orthodoxy declare such notions heretical today.
“Forgive me Kolokotronis, but in my view the pride in this case is all yours.”
You are certainly entitled to your opinion, bb. I am far too prideful, of that I am certain.
“Did you learn that from the Screwtape Letter?..”
Oh no, hp; its far older than that, 5th century.
“Sorry the Screwtape crack was for Kolokotronis.. My bad..
Carry on my lovely.. Arrrrgh..”
hp, just as a matter of curiosity; do you believe demons exist?
Absolutely I've cast them out of a number of poor wretches worshiping their churchs...
Enslaved by strange dogma and indoctrination..
Demons are nasty little vermin..
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