Posted on 12/16/2007 10:01:33 PM PST by DouglasKC
lol Sad but true. Maybe we should just declare a separate "Consumer Day."
I actually got interviewed this year on the subject of dealing with mixed traditions. As a Messianic, I don't celebrate Christmas as a religious holiday, but my parents do, so to honor them I always go to the candle-light service on Christmas Eve (it's one of the nicest pieces of Christian symbolism anywhere) and join them for Christmas dinner.
In return, and out of respect for me, they don't ask me to help decorate the tree (though they do ask me to haul it out of the basement for them) and they light the candles with me for Hanukkah when I'm over. They also come out to our synagogue to celebrate the Biblical Feasts; they're particularly fond of Passover and Sukkot.
I do understand why my Sunday-brethren continue to celebrate Christmas; it's hard to change traditions that one grew up with, and having been raised to celebrate the Lord's birthday at this time, they really do intend it "to the Lord," as it were. It is also a fun and beautiful time of year. I hope they in turn can understand why I choose to go with a different set of holidays.
The ones I really feel sorry for are those who eschew any holidays at all--God gave us His Feasts for our refreshing and joy, and I think that those who try to avoid all "shadows"--whether on the correct Biblical dates or not--rob themselves of a great blessing.
Shalom, Happy Hanukkah, and Merry Christmas to all!
I'm not convinced of that. I think just the opposite would happen:
Deu 30:16 In that I command thee this day to love the LORD thy God, to walk in his ways, and to keep his commandments and his statutes and his judgments, that thou mayest live and multiply: and the LORD thy God shall bless thee in the land whither thou goest to possess it.
Deu 30:17 But if thine heart turn away, so that thou wilt not hear, but shalt be drawn away, and worship other gods, and serve them:
Deu 30:18 I denounce unto you this day, that ye shall surely perish, and that ye shall not prolong your days upon the land, whither thou passest over Jordan to go to possess it.
I think the principle is the same. The more we turn to God and his ways the more blessed we will be. Does this mean monetarily? Maybe, maybe not. Maybe he would bless us by unearthing huge energy reserves. Or causing our enemies to fall. Or anything that would replace the supposed economic "good" that comes out of this time of year.
But surely the blessing of God for keeping his commandments, statutes and judgments will be no small thing.
Sorry, meant to ping you all to post 42 also.
I still read some more conservative Presbyterian articles about rejecting Christmas.
The Reformed Presbyterian Church I used to attend did not really celebrate it much in church itself...no trees or advent candles etc., and basically only a Christmas sermon.
But, I know the pastor celebrated it. The house was very decorated, and he had myself and other college students over for a Christmas breakfast every year.
The church I attend now does celebrate it.
Before about 1850, Massachusetts actually banned Christmas....it really is a new holiday in terms of being so widely celebrated.
I celebrate it because of the birth of Christ, but I ALWAYS keep this in mind......it was the DEATH AND RESURRECTION that saved me.....NOT the birth.
Easter really gets the shaft, yet is is 200 times more important.
And, Christmas is about the only time of the year everyone gets to spend time together.
Yes, there is Thanksgiving, but you know what...it is only one day off, and many can’t travel. Christmas seems to allow a bit more flexibility since you often have 2 days off instead of one, though not always depending on your job. Journalists don’t even get Christmas off, nor my mom, who works at at hospital.
I would say celebrate just because of the family issue. Family is important, and it is not like we get many holidays where we can spend time together.
I'm not convinced of that. I think just the opposite would happen:
I guess the analysis is based on one's worldview.
Colossians 2:13-23
13 When you were dead in your sins and in the uncircumcision of your sinful nature, God made you alive with Christ. He forgave us all our sins,
14 having canceled the written code, with its regulations, that was against us and that stood opposed to us; he took it away, nailing it to the cross.
15 And having disarmed the powers and authorities, he made a public spectacle of them, triumphing over them by the cross.
16 Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day.
17 These are a shadow of the things that were to come; the reality, however, is found in Christ.
18 Do not let anyone who delights in false humility and the worship of angels disqualify you for the prize. Such a person goes into great detail about what he has seen, and his unspiritual mind puffs him up with idle notions.
19 He has lost connection with the Head, from whom the whole body, supported and held together by its ligaments and sinews, grows as God causes it to grow.
20 Since you died with Christ to the basic principles of this world, why, as though you still belonged to it, do you submit to its rules:
21 "Do not handle! Do not taste! Do not touch!"?
22 These are all destined to perish with use, because they are based on human commands and teachings.
23 Such regulations indeed have an appearance of wisdom, with their self-imposed worship, their false humility and their harsh treatment of the body, but they lack any value in restraining sensual indulgence.
Sooooo, you only proclaim the death of our Lord ONE day a YEAR!! Jesus didn’t tell you only one day a year.
What part of GIFTS of the MAGI don’t you people understand??? THAT;S why we give Presents....to HONOR the RECIPIENT!! Lights for the STAR, etc....it’s NOT PAGAN, bro.
That is talking about Communion really, not Passover specifically.
Well....let's see now. This observance was called Passover by Our Lord and His Apostles [Matthew 26:17][Mark 14:12][Luke 22:7][John 13:1] and He was considered the focal point [1 Corinthians 5:7] but you say it was simply a communion service?
Paul continues to mark time by the Passover observance and celebration 30 years after the crucifixion [Acts 20:1-6] and the last living Apostle, John, is spoken of here as showing the early Christian Church the traditions he continued to observe 50/60 years after Our Lord was resurrected. These observances of God's Feast Days and Sabbaths were honored by the Church of God well into the second and third centuries. The Church/State of Rome effectively put an end to most public observances of God's Festivals and they moved underground for the true Church of God.....post Nicaea. But you say it was simply a communion?
When God instituted the Passover He said it was for the generations to come....a lasting ordinance [Exodus 12:14]. Why would you say this was not a Passover....just a communion service?
We are taught that we will be observing the Feast Days in the Millennium [Zechariah 14:16-18]. Do you think Passover will be celebrated then also.....or do you think we'll just be having communion?
By the time the Magi reached Jerusalem it was much later. Perhaps two years [Matthew 2:7] based upon the information Herod received [Matthew 2:16].
The custom of giving gifts to a King....or Head of State was established protocol long before the birth of Our Saviour. The fact that the Magi presented gifts to Him had absolutely nothing to do with His being born.....but the fact He would be King....according to prophecy.
THAT;S why we give Presents....to HONOR the RECIPIENT!! Lights for the STAR, etc....it’s NOT PAGAN, bro.
Gift giving during the Saturnalia observance had been customary long before the birth of Our Lord.
Oh goodness Doug. You tell me your kids get nothing on Christmas. I just don’t believe you need to go so far. You seem very radical to me. Not on everything but just with regards to holidays.
Me too. It's beautiful instruction that teaches us that we shouldn't let anyone judge us for how we keep the Lord's Holy Days.
Yup, that's the point the article makes. Religion changed in response to culture.
When you read Colossians you should probably have someone explain the Greek to you so you would understand what is actually being inspired by the Holy Spirit.
[Colossians 2:14] Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross. Strong's #1378. dogma (dog'-mah)rom the base of "DOKEO". A law (civil, ceremonial or ecclesiasticaldecree, ordinance.
This was the same law that Our Saviour spoke of in [Mark 7:7-8]....Talmudic traditions of men.....man made law. Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men. For laying aside the commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do.
For you to imply that Paul was telling these people of Colosse that he wanted them to ignore God's Law and His special Feast Days and Sabbaths is absolutely untrue. He was telling them about Talmudic law.....and Paul being a trained lawyer [Acts 22:3] had been specifically chosen for this task [Acts 9:15]!
Amen. Our focus ought to be on our relationship with God and not others relationship with God as it pertains to trivial things.
If your brother is in sin, you are your brother’s keeper. If your brother just annoys you, you are to be the bigger brother.
=)
What Paul is saying is that criticizing each other over these trivial matters is a detriment not only to each of our individual lives, but a detriment to the Church as a whole.
If I was implying anything it was that those who choose not to celebrate Christmas should not be critical of those who do.
Passover was commanded to be kept once a year:
Lev 23:5 In the fourteenth day of the first month at even is the LORD's passover.
That is of course the that the Lord was sacrificed for us. And was also when Christ instituted the symbols of bread and wine. It's a yearly memorial observance.
Luk 22:19 And he took bread, and gave thanks, and broke it, and gave unto them, saying, This is my body which is given for you: this do in remembrance of me.
Luk 22:20 Likewise also the cup after supper, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood, which is shed for you.
Many people are confused about the frequency by the wording in the old King James of one of Paul's letters:
1Co 11:25 After the same manner also he took the cup, when he had supped, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood: this do ye, as oft as ye drink it, in remembrance of me.
This means "whenever you drink it", not "drink this as often as you can". The wording of the Message version makes this clear:
1Co 11:25 After supper, he did the same thing with the cup: This cup is my blood, my new covenant with you. Each time you drink this cup, remember me.
If the standard were to drink it as often as we can to remember the Lord than Christians should be drinking all the time or else they're not following Paul's instruction.
Well, the magi gave gifts to a young Christ because he was the soon to be King. From Barnes Commentary:
They presented unto him gifts - These were presented to him as King of the Jews, because they supposed he was to be a distinguished prince and conqueror. It was customary in the East to show respect for persons of distinction by making presents or offerings of this kind. See Gen_32:14; Gen_43:11; 1Sa_10:27; 1Ki_10:2; Psa_72:10-15. This custom is still common in the East, and it is everywhere there unusual to approach a person of distinguished rank without a valuable present.
There was no injunction by Christ to give presents to each other to observe his birth.
A strong case can be made that this tradition grew out of the pagan holiday of Saturnalia
: The Roman's celebrated their god Saturn. Their festival was called Saturnalia which began the middle of December and ended January 1st. With cries of "Jo Saturnalia!" the celebration would include masquerades in the streets, big festive meals, visiting friends, and the exchange of good-luck gifts called Strenae (lucky fruits).
It does seem that way to people who are steeped in tradition and culture. It's not an easy thing to recognize that these ARE traditions that run counter to scripture. All of society tells you you're wrong. Our culture is geared toward Christmas this time of year. But the good part is that history and the bible is clear that Christmas IS a tradition. The Lord Jesus Christ did create holy days that we are to observe to honor him. Christmas wasn't one of them.
About kids...it's funny but the gift thing is nearly *always* the first thing that people mention when they find out I don't keep Christmas. If the highest way of honoring God is giving gifts to your kids at Christmas then there's something wrong with society. I give my kids freewill gifts all year. We also observe the Lord's Feast of Tabernacles for 7 days which is a GREAT time for all children.
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