"For these are the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled." (Luke 21:22)
Posted on 11/04/2007 1:26:45 PM PST by topcat54
"For these are the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled." (Luke 21:22)
“you cannot REASON with a dispensationalist...”
Ain’t that the truth.
Good article. Thanks.
What exactly is the basis of the arguments on dispensationalism?
If you could do dispensationalism for dummies in about five sentences, it would be appreciated. This Catholic looks at the threads and instantly gets a head-ache.
AMEN!
"There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus." -- Galatians 3:28
What is dispensationalism? by John MacArthur.
A Study of Dispensationalism by Arthur W. Pink.
Short answer: seven (or more) dispensations or times of "testing" wrt God’s salvation program; radical distinction between Israel (God’s earthly people) and the Church (God’s heavenly people); radical discontinuity between the Old Testament and the New Testament; future personal antichrist and "great tribulation" where many if not most of the earth’s inhabitants are killed, including most Jews living in Israel; secret pre-tribulational rapture (i.e., rapture is distinct from the orthodox second coming); Jewish millennium ("thousand years" of Revelation 20) after Christ’s second coming with Christ physically reigning over the earth from a throne in earthly Jerusalem; future rebuilding of the Jewish temple in Jerusalem and reinstitution of the Levitical/sacrificial system.
It has been denounced by most historic protestant denominations, especially Lutheran and Reformed. Closely akin to such heretical views as Christian Zionism (ala John Hagee) and dual covenantalism. Also seems to have an odd relationship to messianic Judaism.
So Left Behind in other words?
If you could do dispensationalism for dummies in about five sentences, it would be appreciated. This Catholic looks at the threads and instantly gets a head-ache.
Israel =/= the church. That is the root assumption, defended at all costs. All else flows from that.
Historically it dates from the 1830s, from an English Plymouth Brethren theologian named J. N. Darby.
As far as the eschatology, with the charts and all, Hal Lindsay's Late Great Planet Earth of one of the Left Behind novels are available at fine garage sales everywhere. Ah, yes. Amazon lists Late Grate as " 126 Used & new from $0.01". Left Lying Around "623 Used & new from $0.01".
You got it.
Makes sense, so its a theology that Roman Catholic, Reformed, and Traditional Protestant (not modern mainline Protestant) would take a look at and disagree with.
so its a theology that Roman Catholic, Reformed, and Traditional Protestant would take a look at and disagree with.Pretty much.
Here's a linky to a representative statement. Their objections are pretty much mine.
(not modern mainline Protestant)
I spent a couple hours once scouring WCC denominational websites for their statements of faith, specifically looking for eschatological positions. Most don't appear to believe much of anything at all. It's a dogmatic stretch for them to say Jesus is coming back.
That was what I was implying, not that mainline Protestants believe in Dispensationalism, but they don’t necessary believe in the essentials of Christianity in the first place.
That's correct. Any denomination that subscribes to the ecumenical creeds with its very simple and straightforward wording about Christ’s return would think that dispensationalism is a radical departure from the historic position.
"He ascended into heaven, sits at the right hand of God the Father almighty. From there He shall come to judge the living and the dead.
At His coming, all men are to arise with their own bodies; and they are to give an account of their own deeds.
Those who have done good deeds will go into eternal life; those who have done evil will go into the everlasting fire.
This is the catholic faith. Everyone must believe it, firmly and steadfastly; otherwise He cannot be saved. Amen." (Athanasian Creed)
**If you could do dispensationalism for dummies in about five sentences, it would be appreciated.***
I would be willing to try.
Jesus is crucified, buried and resurected. He is the true king of Israel.
The Apostles preach this so that Israel can experience “the times of refreshing” and then Christ is to return during the destruction of Jerusalem and fulfill the prophecies in the OT, while setting up his world kingdom.
Israel rejects Jesus as the Mesiah. The promise of the kingdom and Israel is set aside and the word of God goes to the Gentiles. The age of Grace begins.
In the future, “the age of grace” will end and the believers will be “raptured” up to be with the Lord before, during, or after the tribulation (take your choice).
Israel then makes a seven year peace treaty with the “anti-Christ” which he then breaks. Wars begin against Israel.
God will then begin again to fulfill all the promises made to Israel in the past and Jesus will return at the destruction of Jerusalem and destroy those invaders.
Then begins the kingdom with Christ as King ruling out of Jerusalem. After one thousand years Satan is released from the botomless pit for one last battle then the new Jerusalem comes down from heaven and everyone lives happily after after except the followers of Satan who are cast into the lake of fire.
Whew. Confusing, isn’t it.
My thoughts is we should live as if Christ was going to return tomorrow and not worry or speculate about what is to happen after that.
For what it is worth FRiend, most of the Calvinists and other Traditional Reformed (Lutherans, Church of England derivatives, etc) get head aches as well.
In a nut shell...appropriate term for the subject of this discussion...Although John N.A.B. Darby is given credit for the first theological outlook that is recognisable as Dispensationalism, the school actually goes back to the movement of Edward Irving, and in particular, two female 'prophets' in his congregation in the 1830's. Those two Scottish females were named Mary Campbell, and Margaret MacDonald. (As a Scot, let me tell you that when you can get a MacDonald and a Campbell to agree on anything, beware of whatever 'it' happens to be.)
Some parts of it were derived from the theology of hymn writer Isaac Watts, though Watts' public theology did not remotely resemble anything recognisable as Modern Dispensationalism.
Along with Dispensationalism, Irving's congregation resembled much of the excesses that one sees in the Modern Charismatic movement. Irving also had difficulties with his Christological doctrines, and was taken to task by the Church of Scotland over those views.
It appears that bad ideas keep trying to gain a foothold in the church in every generation.
Or in the words of the 'Preacher' ...There is nothing new under the Sun...
pflr
Thank you for the response. It is very much appreciated.
I loved the little Scottish joke you dropped in. I have a head-ache already. Its not a theology I put much stock in, I am learning I don’t have to. Thanks again and God Bless.
The reason for this seems obvious. Men love the attention they get from formulating their own creeds with their own noxious doctrines with which they can fool the sheep under their care.
For 1830 years the Church knew nothing of these teachings on the second coming, or on the relationship between Israel and the Church. The early church fathers, and all the fathers for 2000 years, have been supersessionists, teaching that the universal Church is the expansion of the geographically limited entity known as Israel.
All the righteous are the true sons of Abraham by faith in Jesus Christ. We are related to Abraham by the only genetic that matters, spiritual genetics. We are Spiritual Israel.
Well said. While I theologically disagree with Reformed and the other traditional Protestant theologies, they have a grounding in the Traditions and History of the Church that the Fundamentalist and Evangelical (in the seeker and mega-church variety) do not have. It would appear that while Luther broke with Tradition (from the Catholic POV), it wasn’t as radical a break in the basic history of the Church as seen in the Dispensationalists.
Well us LDS don’t have a problem with dispensations as Traditional folks do!
But than when you have the fullness of the Gospel a lot of those kinds of questions are answered.
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