Mormon ousted as an apostate

East Valley Tribune—Phoenix, AZ, MSNBC ^ | Sept 23, 2007 | Lawn Griffiths

[restornu]

Only in warp mines would couch it that way

How many here who gripping all over the place had sex before marriage or lived with someone and are raising this entire stink!

My point has been all you are speculating going beyond the mark with the endless fantasies.

How many here go to movies and it never phrases you all the language or the F word or taking the Lord’s name in vain and are here wearing you pious hat!

The moives I have seen in the last years or so was; 6 Sense, LOTR, Harry Potter, and hope some day to The Chronicles of Narnia

[restornu]

One thing for sure is that the Lord know’s the games that are being played here, and all the heart’s and mind’s

So Excuse me if I don’t take any of you serious!

[Pan_Yans Wife]

ROTFL!

I have to say, you try to “list” how righteous you are!

Jesus told us that even to think an evil thought we are sinning. You recognize that, don’t you? So, how many sins have you committed this MONTH, resty?

Don’t answer! I could care less.

The point isn’t that the Freepers are saying, “JOSEPH SMITH WAS A SINNER!” OF COURSE HE WAS A SINNER.

So am I. So are you.

The point is:

HE WAS AN ADULTERER!

[colorcountry]

Oh No!!!! Not Joseph Smith, the precious Prophet. You are all playing games. He never sinned and he never saw an 'R' rated movie. He did have a beard or have two holes in one ear. He never said the "F" word.....AND he did not have sex with those women (or even think about it) Why, why....he was perfect. (oops I mean, only Jesus was the only perfect man)

Colorcountry (Channeling Elsie's conflicted Mormon Dude....)

[JRochelle]

Golly gee, Restornu, there really are people who don’t use the Lords’s name in vain who AREN’T Mormon.

Believe it or not!

[MHGinTN]

Have some popcorn then, Resty, it's only eternal destiny we're discussing, as influenced by an adulterou fraud peepstone false prophet imaginative 'translator/fabricator' ...

[Utah Girl]

In the Old Testament. I will post you the reference again.

2 Samuel 12: 7,8:
7 And Nathan said to David, Thou art the man. Thus saith the LORD God of Israel, I anointed thee king over Israel, and I delivered thee out of the hand of Saul;

8 And I gave thee thy master's house, and thy master's wives into thy bosom, and gave thee the house of Israel and of Judah; and if that had been too little, I would moreover have given unto thee such and such things.

[Utah Girl]

So are Prophets fallible as men, or not? not? What say ye seven?

Yes, we keep saying that. Prophets are fallible as men.

[tantiboh]

I should have been more clear. I was not intending to accuse CC directly of such, merely taking the logic to its conclusion.

There are some here that are subscribing to the logic that Smith’s “adultery,” as they define it, invalidates him from being a prophet. My point is to underline the inconsistency in saying such while at the same time lending credibility to the Bible’s claims of Abraham as a prophet and simultaneously saying that Abraham was an adulterer.

[tantiboh]

~”...you are overlooking Jesus’ very words regarding adultery.

And you cannot refute them, tantiboh.”~

I am not overlooking them, and I do not care to refute them. But you are expanding them to meet your own definition. That’s my only point.

[colorcountry]

God gave me curly hair, stocky stature, a best friend with freckles, five children, several dogs, a penchant for arguing, biting my nails, overeating, good health a love of hunting and fishing, and two husbands (not at the same time, fortunately).

That doesn’t mean he agreed with, or commanded every choice I made.

God gives us all, good and bad. Are you familiar with the book of Job?

[colorcountry]

So do you agree that Abraham committed the sin of adultery?

[tantiboh]

~”You put words into my mouth. I didn’t deny the prophetic calling of Abraham. I said he was a sinner. And he was.

You have a problem with that?”~

Nope. I agree. I don’t agree that he was an adulterer, because he was acting according to the Lord’s commandments; but he was a sinner as all are.

Where the argument falls apart is when you simultaneously use claims of adultery in an attempt to discredit Smith as a prophet.

[tantiboh]

I must admit, I missed the posts to which you refer.

[Colofornian]

It is not adultery when it is commanded of God, such as in the case of Abraham.

You're reading Joseph's insertion into the text. Joe is the only who claimed that God told Abram/Abraham to have sex with his maid. It wasn't God that talked him into it; it was his wife (what? you say, "same difference!" :) )

A few OT folks practiced polygamy (I wouldn't call Abraham having sex with his maid "polygamy"). Moses warned against doing so in Deuteronomy ["He must not take many wives, or his heart will be led astray." (Dt. 17:17)

Oh, I'm sure it's possible Abram took the "high road" on this one...he only had sex with the maid to fulfull God's promise, right? Perhaps. Perhaps not. (The text doesn't say) Let's take a close look at the result of that experience? Did God bless this "end-run tactic?" Well, folks now say that the people groups that resulted from the child born to the maid, are the folks who are now the biggest rivals to Jews and Christians: Muslims. What does the text say? "And the angel of the Lord said unto her...he will be a wild man; his hand will be against every man, and every man's hand against him..." (Gen. 16:11-12)...

Now God then had enough of that. He decided it was time for a sit-down, drawn-up covenant time with Abram in Gen. 17. Abram was now 90. He told Abram to "walk before me, and be thou perfect" (Gen. 17:1) So He made a covenant w/Him; ensuring that his elderly wife would become pregnant.

[tantiboh]

~”HE WAS AN ADULTERER!”~

I don’t accept the premise; but some here have established that Abraham was also an adulterer.

Was Abraham a prophet of God?

[Pan_Yans Wife]

There is no expansion needed when Jesus’ words are sufficient.

[colorcountry]

I don’t attempt to discredit Smith because of his adultery. But I do condemn his attempt at foisting his own lust and polygamy off as a command of God. There never was ANY polygamy commanded by God - you can not find an instance of it anywhere. God NEVER commanded it - and so Smith is a false Prophet, precisely because he said that God commanded it.

(Among other things like his failed prophecies, fraud and lying while claiming God commanded him to lie.)

[Colofornian]

Nope. I agree. I don’t agree that he was an adulterer, because he was acting according to the Lord’s commandments...

Read my post #315. Quit trying to blame God for the Abram's wife talking her hubby into having sex w/his maid. There is no "God told Abram to have sex with his maid" language in the Bible. (Joseph made it up)

There's also nothing to indicate (beyond what Joseph made up) that the maid even became his wife.

[tantiboh]

~”There is no expansion needed when Jesus’ words are sufficient.”~

Good, I’m glad we agree. Polygamy is not adultery when it is authorized by the Lord. To say otherwise is to expand the teachings of Jesus through application of our own view of morality.