Posted on 09/22/2007 6:09:42 AM PDT by NYer
Quix, why so reserved?
= = =
Welllllllllll, uhhhhh, gwarsh . . .
Maybe I temporarily ran out of other colors.
Or maybe my affect is a bit blunted today and I just wasn’t up to it.
So I did what I could manage.
LOL.
BECAUSE
1 John 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
GOD SAID IT. I believe it. That settles it. . . . certainly, for me. And, I think . . . for all who truly Love and seek God in spirit and in truth.
To God be the glory!
Actually, I think that confession and repentance and forgivness are each worth shouting about quite loudly.
Thanks.
Uhhh, KF?
Not this character!
“Only a priest can forgive sins - in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit.”
Sorry, but to me only God can forgive me of my sins. I will be looking to Him to ask forgiveness, not some priest. I might look to the ministry for guidance but not forgiveness.
However, as we discovered in the San Diego Charismatic house church . . .
where the RULE was . . . we immediately confessed to whomever we’d wronged—and the whole group if we had say been late or some such offending the group . . .
The one(s) receiving our repentance would, of course, reply with “You’re forgiven.” And, they had to follow through acting accordingly in tone, attitude, word and deed as did the repentee.
In our guilt flinging society with such epidemic horrors of parenting . . . PEOPLE NEED TO HEAR THAT THEY ARE FORGIVEN.
“Does it matter if they’re a practicing pedophile?”
LOL. I would think than many of the sins I keep hearing about with those guys are more appalling than those of most people I associate with.
It’s from Mr. Rogers’ Neighborhood. There was a puppet show on it, and the puppet King Friday would make pronouncements and then the other puppet characters would tell him, “Correct as usual, King Friday.”
It’s been nearly 25 years since I’ve had a kid young enough to watch that show, but somehow, the phrase sprang to mind as a response to your post.
Cheerio,
Joya
I would like to note that I commend you for such heart-felt vigorous defense of the faith as you construe it and experience it. No luke-warmness about you. Praise God for that.
I also understand on good authority that you have overcome . . . some significant challenges at great sacrifice in a Godly way to the benefit of others in spite of being . . . troubled . . . horrifically. PRAISE GOD FOR THAT.
I only caution that GOD IS YOUR STRENGTH. ALL else pales in comparison.
Now . . . back to the fray . . . lol.
Actually . . . my bark is more authentic than my hoot.
Though I can do a tolerable turtle dove call.
Thanks for your kind words.
That sounds outstanding! I wish all priests would do that!
= = =
Indeed.
Ahhhhh. I don’t think I ever saw the show as a kid.
I was okay with you til you got into your judgemental mode about other people but then I've already forgiven you for being that way so I'm okay with you again.
Thanks for that opportunity.
Hmmm...
"God has bound salvation to the sacrament of Baptism, but he himself is not bound by his sacraments"
I get a number of things out of the Naaman story...Naaman's servants implied that Naaman was willing to do great deeds, or works to become clean (of leprosy)...
Elisha didn't give Naaman that option...The only thing Elisha required was that Naaman had enough faith to believe that the Jewish God could and would heal (cleanse) Naaman without anything on Naaman's part...
And then when Naaman was healed, he insisted on paying for the miracle...Elisha made it clear that you can't buy or pay for cleansing (salvation)...It's not for sale...
Although it was common for Gentiles to have many gods to worship, Naaman admitted that there is truely only one God...The God of Israel...
Was that a baptism for Naaman???
The one thing that always tied in with baptism in the bible is repentance, FIRST...And what is repentance??? Repentance is turning to or toward God...It is FAITH in God...I don't ever recollect anyone getting baptized without first having belief in God...
Act 19:4 Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.
This of course, disqualifies babies and children who can not have a real belief in God...
There is no record of anyone in the bible getting baptized by getting sprinkled upon...Baptism is by immersion...It is and has to be immersion because immersion signifies something...
Baptism does not mean water...Immersion does not mean water...They are spelled differently...Water means water...Baptism means immersion...And how do we know this???
Act 11:16 Then remembered I the word of the Lord, how that he said, John indeed baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost.
If baptize means water, then Jesus just said that John watered with water...So people ought not to embarrass themselves by insisting that baptize means water...
Remember, Baptize means immerse...Therefore, Jesus said that John immersed with water, but ye shall be immersed with the Holy Ghost (as opposed to water...No water)...You'll be baptized without water...
1Co 12:13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.
Were we all watered into one body, or immersed into one body???
Gal 3:27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
We have not been watered into Christ but immersed into Christ...
Rom 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
We are immersed (baptized) in Christ...
Gal 3:27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
We are now baptized (immersed) into Christ, not water...
We are called to a life of "continual conversion
Act 2:21 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved.
Act 2:47 Praising God, and having favor with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved.
There is no continual conversion here...You are either saved right now, or you ain't...And when you are, you are a member of the body of Christ, and not before...You are not a member of Jesus' body, his church, unless you are fully saved, right now...
It wouldn't hurt for more Protestant ministers to do the same (1 Cor 11). Of course, that plays out a little differently for us, but the principle is the same. One ought not partake of the Lord's Supper unworthily.
I hadn't brought up the Naaman incident as a discussion of Baptism only, but as an illustration of God setting wantever conditions He wills. And He chooses to act through material things, people, and experiences. He requires that Naaman dip himself seven times in the Jordan, for instance (which is not baptism per se, but is certaily a powerful image or prefiguring of baptism.)
My point is that God could do everything without the involvement of our bodies and our senses --- without our having to speak, listen, kneel, stand, get anointed with oil, get dipped in water, or do anything physical--- but God ordinarily doesn't do it that way.
Our relationship with God is not the relationship of an intellect to a concept, but the relationship of a whole person to a whole Person. And because we are physical beings, and social beings, His own chosen set-up is to reach us through other people and through physical, outward, sensible signs.
Hence (back t the discussion on Confession) God wants you to not just think but to speak your confession and your sorrow, and He wants you to not just think, but to hear the holy words of forgiveness. That's why He said to His Apostles, "He who hears you, hears Me" --- and again, "Whose sins you shall forgive, they are forgiven them."
What do you think He means by that?
That's silly. I don't think anyone here claims baptism "means" water. The act of baptising does make "use" of water however, as illustrated in Scripture:
Baptism means wash.
Meaning of the Greek word βαπτίζω
Liddell and Scott is not the only authority to point out that the Greek word βαπτίζω did not mean exclusively, dip, plunge, immerge. Scholars of various denominations point to two passages in the New Testament as indicating that the word was used of something much less than the total immersion of the person. Luke 11:38 recounts that, when Jesus ate at a Pharisee's house, "the Pharisee was astonished to see that he did not first wash (βαπτίζω - literally, "be baptized" or "baptize himself") before dinner." Those who point to this passage say that the Pharisee will not have expected Jesus to immerse himself fully before having a meal and that his surprise will have been at Jesus' omission of the customary ritual washing of the hands. The other New Testament passage pointed to is Mark 7:3–4: "The Pharisees ... do not eat unless they wash (νίπτω, the ordinary word for washing) their hands thoroughly, observing the tradition of the elders; and when they come from the market place, they do not eat unless they wash themselves (literally, "baptize themselves" - βαπτίζω)".
Truth isn’t judgement, dear ninonitti. You are in error about all people being perfect. We aren’t. NONE of us are, but God sees us as perfect when we have Christ dwelling within. I’m sorry if you see that as being judgemental. It’s not meant to be. It’s just the truth.
So dear Mary if as you just said that none of us are perfect is true, then by what miracle are you able to determine the Perfect Truth without error or judgement since none of us are perfect?
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