Posted on 07/25/2007 7:20:45 PM PDT by Ottofire
Listen very carefully. I want you to buy ten cloves of garlic, three quarts of vinegar, six ounces...
LOL. A church needs a logo now?
Apparently logos isn't enough for them.
I would respond, but that’s too easy.
well, I’m drawing a blank as to how you can answer back to Scripture and say “yeah but.”
If life was fun everyone would be in Orlando.
No wonder I'm so joyful- I'm in Tampa, right next door. Certainly couldn't be because of my salvation, nope.
All believers don't live in Tampa. Some live in the Sudan.
What's really underlying this whole thing, this whole thread, is the tendency for some Pharisees to find fault with someone who's making a difference and being productive in the Kingdom. It's disgusting and reprehensible. No wonder people dont' cruise the religion threads more often, if this is the type of crap they're going to be exposed to? Why don't you reserve your little judgmental attitudes for yourself and satan? You'll be improved, and he will be toast. You aren't making any difference in the world by criticizing a fellow servant. Criticize yourself.
I think what's being criticized is the shallow approach to chrisitan living which is being presented.
You'll find that neither Jesus, nor any of His Apostles exhibited 'life is a party' attitudes.
Unfortunately, many of those who are baptized into 'life is a party' chrisitanity ... will later find that its anything but that ... and will either be halted or stymied in any further christian growth.
Certainly our lives are better than they were prior to our conversion ... by virtue of our blessed hope, ... but we still have trials and tribulations.
Consider the martyred and persecuted early church. We do them injustice when we trivialize our calling.
While sin no longer holds power over us, we're still prone to sin and we do sin, which is what I believe you meant to say.
I meant to say what I said. We are free from the law of sin and death. Sure we sin, but so what. If we confess it, we're cleansed. Beats the alternative!
Not quite reflective of the Apostle Paul's view ...Romans 7:21 So I find this law at work: When I want to do good, evil is right there with me.
22 For in my inner being I delight in God's law;
23 but I see another law at work in the members of my body, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin at work within my members.
24 What a wretched man I am! Who will rescue me from this body of death?
Oh brother.I could post all kinds of stuff about joy, victory, dominion, laughter, peace, etc. etc. etc.
Who would win? The one who posted more verses?
The point is, you can focus on one or the other. If you’re constantly negative and critical, how do you expect to attract people to Jesus? Cheer up already. I wouldn’t want to follow you to your God if you’re moping around and tearing people down all the time.
Keep reading....the next verse has your answer. It’s not quite so ‘doom and gloom’ you know.
I’ve read Richard Wurmbrand and Tom White’s books, I subscribe to VOM, I know apostles in Mozambique and Mexico. You want to see something completely incongruous? How can Roland and Heidi Baker have such extreme joy when their people get murdered by Muslims, their buildings get burned down, their food gets stolen, they get lied about and targeted? The Lord had told Heidi that she will die a martyr.
You know what? She’s one of the happiest Christians I’ve ever seen. Meanwhile, we have a thread full of miserable people here criticizing a pastor who’s probably accomplishing more than all of us put together.
We need a serious perspective check, and that’s what I’m TRYING to do- if people will get their heads out of their religious rear ends and pay attention to God.
How can Roland and Heidi Baker have such extreme joy when their people get murdered by Muslims, their buildings get burned down, their food gets stolen, they get lied about and targeted? The Lord had told Heidi that she will die a martyr.
You know what? She’s one of the happiest Christians I’ve ever seen. Meanwhile, we have a thread full of miserable people here criticizing a pastor who’s probably accomplishing more than all of us put together.
I don't think that anyone's saying that Christians should not be happy ... or should not have joy.
I think what's being expressed is a concern that those being brought to baptism in 40 different ways ... are not really being brought into an authentic relationship with Jesus Christ.
It might be different if the thrust was not baptism, ... but rather belief in Jesus Christ as Saviour and Lord.
I mean ... the first thing that struck me aabout the posting was that I didn't understand why there seemed to be so much concern over people being baptized. I mean, baptism is for believers, and the vast majority of believers have no hesitancy about being baptized.
But perhaps you are right and the 40 ways will bring more people into relationship with Jesus. I certainly have no problem with any church doing what they sincerely feel led by God to do and I will sincerely pray for their efforts.
It was just one of those things that make you go ... hmmmm ...
Because I don't want to bait and switch. Jesus himself said if anyone wishes to follow him "take up your cross." e.g. consider yourself as good as dead. Only after they had done so and were committed to doing so did he offer encouragement like peace that passes all understanding, joy etc. (in spite of the misery the world will inflict).
yeah cuz Scripture surely isn't enough to convince them. We have to add a classy photo/rememberance album to it!
Welll, YES! Exactly what I’ve been saying.
Look, the lost are miserable anyway. Their conscience condemns them. I remember what I was like, and I’m thankful still, after all these years, that I was delievered from such torment.
So I’m going to be happy, positive, supportive of other ministers, and I’m determined to enjoy my warfare, BECAUSE I WIN. Sure I take some damage, but so what. I absolutely love kicking the snot out of satan every chance I get. I hope that doesn’t worry you, but if so, you’ll just have to get over it.
So if all that’s true, baptism should be a joyous occasion, as well as the remainder of a Christian’s life after salvation. Cheer up! There’s no bait and switch.
I think you're reading somehting into this that doesn't exist. I also believe that baptism is SOLELY and EXPLICITLY for believers.
Where did you read that this pastor doesn't believe that? He's a Baptist. They're very strict on that, you know. These are just ideas 'outside the box' for a baptism service, (some of which are, at worst, kind of cheesy) and you guys are wigging out over it. Get a grip.
Go through the gospels and see all the times where Jesus said stuff that made people stop following him. Such as this:
Luke 14:11 For whosoever exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted.
Luke 14:25-35
25. Now great multitudes went with Him. And He turned and said to them,
26. “If anyone comes to Me and does not hate his father and mother, wife and children, brothers and sisters, yes, and his own life also, he cannot be My disciple.
27. “And whoever does not bear his cross and come after Me cannot be My disciple.
28. “For which of you, intending to build a tower, does not sit down first and count the cost, whether he has enough to finish it—
29. “lest, after he has laid the foundation, and is not able to finish, all who see it begin to mock him,
30. “saying, ‘This man began to build and was not able to finish.’
31. “Or what king, going to make war against another king, does not sit down first and consider whether he is able with ten thousand to meet him who comes against him with twenty thousand?
32. “Or else, while the other is still a great way off, he sends a delegation and asks conditions of peace.
33. “So likewise, whoever of you does not forsake all that he has cannot be My disciple.
Luke 17:10 “So likewise ye, when ye shall have done all those things which are commanded you, say, We are unprofitable servants: we have done that which was our duty to do.”
(etc etc there are hundreds more examples — I don’t have the time to go through them all right now but as you read, pay attention to how hard he makes it to follow him.)
Yes I know.
Your point is?
http://christianresearchnetwork.com/?p=929
The Cost of discipleship sermon audio by Leonard Ravenhill
http://www.sermonindex.net/modules/mydownloads/singlefile.php?lid=282
Ten Shekels and a Shirt Sermon audio by Paris Reidhead
http://www.crossroad.to/Persecution/Bonhoffer.html
The cost of discipleship (Bonhoffer)
http://www.allaboutfollowingjesus.org/the-cost-of-discipleship.htm
The Cost of Discipleship - “Sit Down First and Count the Cost”
http://www.biblebb.com/files/MAC/90-23.HTM
The Cost of Discipleship by John MacArthur
http://www.puritansermons.com/pmp/pmp0823p.htm
Count the Cost from “The Poor Man’s Portions” by Robert Hawker
http://christianresearchnetwork.com/?p=2701
The Cost of Following Jesus by Mike Ratliff
http://christianresearchnetwork.com/?p=1987
The High Cost of Living Righteously
The Fear of God Reveals Love
http://christianresearchnetwork.com/?p=2498
It might be different if the thrust was not baptism, ... but rather belief in Jesus Christ as Saviour and Lord. I mean ... the first thing that struck me aabout the posting was that I didn't understand why there seemed to be so much concern over people being baptized. I mean, baptism is for believers, and the vast majority of believers have no hesitancy about being baptized.
I think you're reading somehting into this that doesn't exist. I also believe that baptism is SOLELY and EXPLICITLY for believers.
Where did you read that this pastor doesn't believe that? He's a Baptist. They're very strict on that, you know. These are just ideas 'outside the box' for a baptism service, (some of which are, at worst, kind of cheesy) and you guys are wigging out over it. Get a grip.
I didn't say that he didn't believe it, ... but I did get an impression of his focus (in this case) on Baptism.
Like I get an impression of the focus of the 'Health and Wealth' ministries.
I just wonder (to some extent) about this particular focus of his. It's not a federal crime ... christians can do that.
In fact, you are the one who has expressed a somewhat surly attitude to your fellow Christians on this board. As you say, ... remove the log from your own eye ... before you attempt to remove the speck in mine. I think that you have some work to do.
BTW ... I am Baptist ... and we celebrate baptisms.
God Bless ...
Me, an attitude? I haven't even gotten to the imprecatory pronouncements of judgment, 'woe unto you' or 'whitewashed tombs' stuff yet. ;)
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