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Will the Pope's Pronouncement Set Ecumenism Back a Hundred Years? (Challenge to Apostolicity)
Progressive Theology ^ | July 07

Posted on 07/22/2007 7:40:38 PM PDT by xzins

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To: wmfights
How about adding pardon?"

"Pardon" works just fine. Most any way we phrase it, we're judged "not guilty" by way of Christ standing in the dock where we should be standing and taking on the punishment rightly due our sins.

Justification by Christ's actions alone.

8,281 posted on 10/04/2007 4:05:33 PM PDT by Dr. Eckleburg ("I don't think they want my respect; I think they want my submission." - Flemming Rose)
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To: suzyjaruki; Athena1; irishtenor; HarleyD; wmfights; Forest Keeper; 1000 silverlings; Uncle Chip; ...
Transubstantiation is repugnant not only to Scripture but to common sense and reason.

Amen.

A VINDICATION OF THE DOCTRINE
THAT THE SACRIFICE OF THE MASS
IS IDOLATRY (1550)
by John Knox

"...In exposing the idolatrous nature of the Mass, Knox stresses that all religious ceremonies and institutions must have clear biblical warrant, if they are to be admitted as valid expressions of worship. All worship invented by man is idolatry. Knox demonstrates that the Mass is a human invention; and, therefore, the Mass is idolatrous. The entire discussion turns upon Knox's defence of the scriptural law of worship..."

8,282 posted on 10/04/2007 4:15:24 PM PDT by Dr. Eckleburg ("I don't think they want my respect; I think they want my submission." - Flemming Rose)
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To: stfassisi; suzyjaruki; HarleyD; wmfights; Forest Keeper; blue-duncan; xzins; P-Marlowe; ...
I would direct all posters to your post #8,255. It proves the urgent necessity of an ongoing Reformation.

During Holy Mass, after the two-fold consecration, the host was changed into live Flesh and the wine was changed into live Blood, which coagulated into five globules, irregular and differing in shape and size...

You're looking for God in the wrong place.

8,283 posted on 10/04/2007 4:19:33 PM PDT by Dr. Eckleburg ("I don't think they want my respect; I think they want my submission." - Flemming Rose)
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To: kawaii; suzyjaruki
how often do you care to recall Christ?

We should "recall" Him constantly.

But we are not to repeatedly offer Him in sacrifice again and again since His one propitiation perfected His flock forever (Hebrews 10).

8,284 posted on 10/04/2007 4:24:16 PM PDT by Dr. Eckleburg ("I don't think they want my respect; I think they want my submission." - Flemming Rose)
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To: Dr. Eckleburg

I will be praying for you at adoration tomorrow.


8,285 posted on 10/04/2007 4:24:36 PM PDT by stfassisi ("Above all gifts that Christ gives his beloved is that of overcoming self"St Francis Assisi)
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To: Alamo-Girl; jo kus
Thank you for your terrific post, Alamo-Girl. I was looking forward to seeing how you answered the questions (especially since physics is not my strong suit.)

I propose it is better to conceive of reality – physical and spiritual – as God's will and unknowable in its fullness.

AMEN!

Then we can receive God's revelations to us for what they are – partial visions of His glory, never a full picture – we could not "handle it."

And another AMEN!

Again, there was a beginning of "all that there is." Moreover, there is a reason for it.

Yes, exactly and Scripturally true. There really was a beginning point and there really will be an end point which can be connected across the universe by our perceptions of a very real linear time-line, all determined according to the will and purpose of God from before time.

"And, Thou, Lord, in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of thine hands:

They shall perish; but thou remainest; and they all shall wax old as doth a garment;

And as a vesture shalt thou fold them up, and they shall be changed: but thou art the same, and thy years shall not fail." -- Hebrews 1:10-12


8,286 posted on 10/04/2007 5:02:14 PM PDT by Dr. Eckleburg ("I don't think they want my respect; I think they want my submission." - Flemming Rose)
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To: stfassisi; Dr. Eckleburg
The analyses were conducted with absolute and unquestionable scientific precision and they were documented with a series of microscopic photographs. These analyses sustained the following conclusions: The Flesh is real Flesh. The Blood is real Blood. The Flesh and the Blood belong to the human species. The Flesh consists of the muscular tissue of the heart. In the Flesh we see present in section: the myocardium, the endocardium, the vagus nerve and also the left ventricle of the heart for the large thickness of the myocardium. The Flesh is a “HEART” complete in its essential structure.

Wow -- Just how does a communicant get one of these??? Are they special order only??? I'll bet they would be quite popular down at the Church of the Sacred Heart on Halloween. And then what about on Fridays -- is one of these heart hosts considered meat or fishy or what???

8,287 posted on 10/04/2007 5:10:46 PM PDT by Uncle Chip (TRUTH : Ignore it. Deride it. Allegorize it. Interpret it. But you can't ESCAPE it.)
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To: jo kus; Alamo-Girl
thus, God does not exist WITHIN time

Of course He does!

What is the Holy Spirit if not God "within time?"

8,288 posted on 10/04/2007 5:16:33 PM PDT by Dr. Eckleburg ("I don't think they want my respect; I think they want my submission." - Flemming Rose)
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To: jo kus; blue-duncan; suzyjaruki; HarleyD; Forest Keeper; wmfights; Alamo-Girl
"Reborn"? The text of Titus 3:5 doesn't say anything about being "reborn", but being regenerated and being renewed.

I know the RCC has trouble with the concept of "being reborn," but that is exactly what the words "regeneration" and "renewing" are referring to.

If you think there's a difference, what is it?

We find numerous "heathens" who do the will of the Lord in Scriptures!

Many men think they're obeying the law and thus they think they are being righteous. But God says if we break even one part of the law we have broken all of it and we remain condemned.

Your humanistic attitude shows so clearly in your misinterpretation of the verses.

Look at Romans 5. To whom is Paul speaking? To those who have been "justified by faith." Not every man, only believers.

"But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many." -- Romans 5:15

The grace of God abounds to "many." Not "all."

"For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.)" -- Romans 5:17

Again, those who "receive" grace and the "gift of righteousness" will reign with Christ. Not the entire world because the entire world does not "receive Christ."

"Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life." -- Romans 5:18

The "free gift came upon all men," which means, in this context, that all men are without excuse for not recognizing the truth that Christ is God. The gift stares them in the face, but they rebuke it because they have not been given eyes to see what is truly in front of them.

"For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous." -- Romans 5:19

Again, "many" will be made righteous.

Yes, ALL MEN ARE RECONCILED TO GOD!

If all men today are reconciled to God, then all men are acquitted of their sins and all men will end up in heaven and hell is empty.

Nowhere does the Bible say all men are reconciled to God, and thus forgiven of their sins.

If God wanted all men to be saved, all men would be saved.

Where does the Sciptures say that Jesus died ONLY for the elect?

On just about every page. But John 17 is pretty clear...

"I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me; for they are thine.

And all mine are thine, and thine are mine; and I am glorified in them." -- John 17:9-10

And don't try to say these verses are only to the Apostles, because Christ corrects that error 10 verses later...

"Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word" -- John 17:20

Cheer up, jo kus! You are not just another number to God. You are among a very specific group of sinners for whom Christ died. He has paid for your sins, every one of them. Rejoice.

8,289 posted on 10/04/2007 5:54:54 PM PDT by Dr. Eckleburg ("I don't think they want my respect; I think they want my submission." - Flemming Rose)
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To: Dr. Eckleburg
I like your book proposal, Harley. Hurry up and retire

That's what I keep telling my wife. :O)

8,290 posted on 10/04/2007 5:57:51 PM PDT by HarleyD
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To: Forest Keeper
From the beginning we know that some who profess faith and say "Lord, Lord" will go to Heaven and some will not. To the latter, Jesus says "I NEVER knew you". Therefore, they could never have been true believers.

Amen, FK!

8,291 posted on 10/04/2007 5:57:54 PM PDT by Dr. Eckleburg ("I don't think they want my respect; I think they want my submission." - Flemming Rose)
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To: Alamo-Girl; jo kus; Dr. Eckleburg; HarleyD; P-Marlowe; wmfights; Forest Keeper; irishtenor; ...
Again, eternity is time without end. There is no eternity past. There was a beginning of time and a beginning of space

What does that make of God? God is not just eternal—He is eternity, withough a beginning and without an end. Furthermore, God is outside of time.

If your definition is to be considered, then God, by necessity, has a beginning, and His very essence (of being without a cause) is made subject to His own creation, namely time.

8,292 posted on 10/04/2007 6:06:06 PM PDT by kosta50 (Eastern Orthodoxy is pure Christianity)
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To: kosta50; Alamo-Girl; blue-duncan; HarleyD; wmfights; Forest Keeper; irishtenor; P-Marlowe; ...
Furthermore, God is outside of time.

Does the Holy Spirit move and work within time?

8,293 posted on 10/04/2007 6:11:15 PM PDT by Dr. Eckleburg ("I don't think they want my respect; I think they want my submission." - Flemming Rose)
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To: Dr. Eckleburg; kosta50; Alamo-Girl; HarleyD; wmfights; Forest Keeper; irishtenor; P-Marlowe

“Does the Holy Spirit move and work within time?”

Not if He’s a Baptist. We never start on time, get there on time, or end on time. We believe whole heartedly in moving when the Spirit moves.


8,294 posted on 10/04/2007 6:30:47 PM PDT by blue-duncan
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To: Dr. Eckleburg; suzyjaruki; Athena1; irishtenor; HarleyD; wmfights; Forest Keeper; ...
"...In exposing the idolatrous nature of the Mass, Knox stresses that all religious ceremonies and institutions must have clear biblical warrant, if they are to be admitted as valid expressions of worship. All worship invented by man is idolatry..."

Idolatry is worshiping false objects, objects other than God. The Divine Liturgy (Holy Mass) is entrely focused on worshiping the Triune God. Is the manner of worship now made idolatrous becase John Knox says it is? If so, then the muscial instruments in the Presbyterian churches are idolatrous innovations as well, for any kind of instrumental music was originally banned by the Reformers. And so are microphones and visual aides, because none fo these are mentioned in the Bible.

I think it would be good for the Protestants to look for logs in their own eyes before they busy themselves finiding thorns in other churches. For starters, they can show us where does the bible say that divorce is somehting Christians can exercise freely? Does it ever occur to the Protestants that perhaps they do many things that are not scripturally sound?

8,295 posted on 10/04/2007 6:31:16 PM PDT by kosta50 (Eastern Orthodoxy is pure Christianity)
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To: Dr. Eckleburg; Alamo-Girl; blue-duncan; HarleyD; wmfights; Forest Keeper; irishtenor; P-Marlowe
Does the Holy Spirit move and work within time?

God intercedes within time but He is unaffected by it. He cannot be defined in terms of time or space. Your question is, no offense intended, pure sophistry.

8,296 posted on 10/04/2007 6:34:03 PM PDT by kosta50 (Eastern Orthodoxy is pure Christianity)
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To: blue-duncan
Hahaha ... ever take a look at a Baptist Church parking lot on Sunday Morning? One wonders where they park when they get home, surely not in the garage since they cannot get in between a pair of lines at Church. [I speak from years of experience as a Baptist before becoming an Episcopalian.]
8,297 posted on 10/04/2007 6:36:45 PM PDT by MHGinTN (If you can read this, you've had life support. Defend life support for others in the womb.)
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To: kosta50
Jesus limited Himself to live under the strictures of time and space (except for a rare personal case or two such as walking away from a mob of ‘priests’ wishing to seize him, or walking on water or speaking to someone already in the great beyond like Lazarus or the little girl or Moses and Elijah). But after the resurrection, well, that’s a whole different story!
8,298 posted on 10/04/2007 6:41:58 PM PDT by MHGinTN (If you can read this, you've had life support. Defend life support for others in the womb.)
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To: HarleyD; Dr. Eckleburg; MarkBsnr; Forest Keeper; Alex Murphy; 1000 silverlings; suzyjaruki
A number of later Protestants writers believed that pride was the reason man fell as well

I believe that many Anglicans and Lutherans would agree with that to this day.

It could not have been pride as pride is a sin and Adam, up to this point, was sinless

Pride was the cause of disobedience. His pride diminished God's commandment as he desired to be equal to God. His pride prevented him from repenting when it was time to repent.

Often times we don't even see our pride. In fact, we blame someone else. Just as Adam and Eve did.

Adam was guilty because Eve was given to Adam and man is the "head of the woman" as Apostle Paul says. He took the blame because it was on his watch.

Hopefully and God willing, someday during my retirement years, I will write a book on this and straighten everyone out on this subject

On that "humble" note, I will close with "good luck."

8,299 posted on 10/04/2007 6:48:48 PM PDT by kosta50 (Eastern Orthodoxy is pure Christianity)
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To: Dr. Eckleburg

thks for allllllllllll your pings


8,300 posted on 10/04/2007 7:10:02 PM PDT by Quix (GOD ALONE IS GOD; WORTHY; PAID THE PRICE; IS COMING AGAIN; KNOWS ALL; IS LOVING; IS ALTOGETHER GOOD)
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