Will the Pope's Pronouncement Set Ecumenism Back a Hundred Years? (Challenge to Apostolicity)

Progressive Theology ^ | July 07

[Dr. Eckleburg]

LOLOL. Although I’m partial to the last one you had — “Presbyterianism is pure Christianity.” lol.

[irishtenor]

Man does not live by bread alone, but every word that proceeds from the mouth of God.

God said it, not me.

[irishtenor]

If only we could do two of them at the same time. :>)

[suzyjaruki]

It is not the Bible that is the bread of life No one said it was.

Tell me something, if the life is in the Eucharist, how often do you need to eat of it? Every day, once a week? How do you know if you have enough?

[stfassisi]

I will leave you with this link for tonight.
Take your time and read through it

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-religion/1848700/posts?page=788#788

I wish you a blessed Evening!

[kosta50]

jo to Dr. E: God is mediated through the Scriptures, but that is not His essence. No one can see God and live. To see is to know. Do you think that the Bible is God??? This question keeps coming up - and I am beginning to think that some Protestants, perhaps subliminally, worship the Bible...

Indeed, jo, this is very well said. Mediated is the operant word here. God's essence is a supreme Mystery, something we can never see or grasp.

God's words are not God. Again, you are merely showing that you are worshiping the bible, rather than God.

Bibliolatry is a very real heresy that has been alive and well since the Reformation.

[Dr. Eckleburg]

The problem with using the term "common grace" for God's "general benevolence" toward all His creation is that it is so often confused with the Arminian concept of "enabling" grace.

I think it's better to save the term "grace" for what it really means -- God's unmerited, undeserved, free, unconditional, eternal, predestining, transformative, all-glorious, ordained-from-before-the-foundation-of-the-world love for His children. 8~)

Whadayathink?

[D-fendr]

To say that everyone has a conscience simply means everyone knows that good and bad exist

And the difference between the two, rather what is good and bad. X is bad; Y is good. X is wrong; Y is right.

Unless we're speaking Eubonics, a conscience means bad hurts your conscience - else you have no conscience.

[kosta50]

jo to Dr. E: Yes they are. On an infinite line, all points are the same. God is not made up of "parts", nor is He divisible, but is pure simplicity, pure unity. ALL is such in infinity. God is EXISTENCE or BEING itself, so God doesn't exist "within" infinity, He IS infinity

Absolutely, jo. This is orthodox catholoic theology 101.

[suzyjaruki]

I will read later, maybe.

There is no lasting benefit in the Eucharist, you will be hungry again, because the bread & wine point to something that is greater, something of lasting benefit.

[Dr. Eckleburg]

The conscience, like nature and the law are just witnesses given by God's providence to turn mankind to Himself. There is no salvific grace in any of them except to point one to God, who alone can rid one of the guilt of sin.

AMEN!

[Dr. Eckleburg]

Was Paul wrong when he wrote “whatsoever is not of faith is sin?”

[irishtenor]

So you believe in transubstantiation. I don’t. Big deal. I believe that Jesus died once for all. All my sins are taken away by the blood of Jesus. My trust in Jesus will take me to the promised land. My faith in Jesus will bring me through all the trials and tribulations of this world. My hope is on the promises of a God who never lies, never fails, never deceives.

You have failed in loving those who believe differently than you do. You call them heretics, their beliefs heretical, and the writings that they read heretical. I, and most, if not all of the other Protestant posters, do not, nor will not, call you a heretic for what you believe. I will try to convince you through the Bible of what I perceive is you error. I thoroughly believe that you are a fellow Christian, because you have a heart for Jesus. For me to call you a heretic would be wrong. To say that I believe you are in error, however, would be correct.

[D-fendr]

You’re gonna have to translate that into Calvinese before I can give you a reasoned answer.

[kosta50]

That is decidedly NOT Paul's view since he laments doing what he does not wish to do, but that which he wishes to do, he does not. (Rom. 7:15-20) Paul says explicitly that the wickedness of sin still lives in us to an extent. Phil. 1:10 is part of Paul's prayer

But the question is does it have an effect on us, not whether it lives in us and we resist it; wickedness is in our fallen nagture, so naturally it will live in us! If it has no effect on us then we don't sin. But if it does have an effect on us then we are wicked and how can one who is wicked be justified?

King David repented of his wickedness. He did not continue to covet other peoples' wives or arrange to kill their husbands. He gave up his wickedness in repentance. One is either wicked or just. You can't be both.

[kosta50]

I live in the West and am Roman Catholic and I study the East. If I lived in the East I would likely be Eastern Orthodox and study the West. This is part of the incredible depth, breadth and beauty of our faith - it is never exhausted.

Well said, and so true.

[Dr. Eckleburg]

The mere thought of you calling Calvin a saint turns my stomach.

SAINTCALVINSAINTCALVINSAINTCALVIN
SAINTCALVINSAINTCALVINSAINTCALVIN
SAINTCALVINSAINTCALVIN...

Even Luther was horrified by Calvin's total depravity and the lengths he took it to.

Proof for that absurd remark?

The fact that Calvin would take total depravity to mean that man is so dreadful that Christ would never give us His true presence in Eucharist is the work of the devil.

The Scriptural truth that since the fall all men are fallen and incapable of saving themselves is NOT what Calvin ever said was the reason for his correct assessment that the RC mass is blasphemy because it seeks to sacrifice Christ again and again and again. Read Hebrews 10. Christ's flock HAVE BEEN forgiven.

"But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;

From henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his footstool.

For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified." -- Hebrews 10:12-14

[kosta50]

I only have one document

Which has been corrupted by human hands and will. We have other documents to compare it to and make sure that the understanding has not been lost.

Besides, you treat that document as if it were God. I have news for you: the Bible is not God. Nor is inspiration God. What stfassisi told you is essentially a historical fact that Bible has been worshiped since the Reformation.

[irishtenor]

Guess what, Your church is not God, either.

Boy, you should have seen what I just erased before I posted this. It could of gotten me banned.

[stfassisi]

Dear brother/Sister... for the record I did not call you a heretic . I stand by calling John Calvin a heretic because he knowingly deceived others.

You are deceived and I will pray for you.
... And I consider you a separated brother/sister in Christ.

In the future, it would do you well to NOT put words that were not said into people mouths -so to speak

Good Night ,Dear Brother /Sister