Posted on 07/22/2007 7:40:38 PM PDT by xzins
Dr. E-All men are fallen and none seeks God unless and until God first regenerates his heart and renews his mind to the truth of Christ risen.
Amen! Without a new heart, men will never on their own accord seek after the things of righteousness. It's not a "program" thingy. We aren't trained to do bad things. It's our nature.
Yep, and Augustine would have some pretty harsh words with them if he could see what they have become.
That is correct, Mark. Sin is death because it is separation from God, Who is Life. And salvation means to be saved from death.
Te birth of Protestantism was founded on re-defining St. Paul's teaching, along with rejecting the Christian Bible and creating a new canon without any authority whatsoever.
Excellent post stfassisi. A keeper.
Now you are saying that God listens to what we want? How Calvinist is that? Is your heart actually thawing and coming back to life?
***Now you are saying that God listens to what we want? ***
He didn’t say it. Quit putting things in other people’s mouths.
It’s the same thing, HD. But, ok, I’ll rephrase it:
Is it taught that their eternal fate is predetermined: That they may not be rescued from being born for hell no matter what?
It is all in God’s hands. Period. He alone decides who live with him in heaven and who is destined for destruction.
Adding to 7861, take a look at +John Chrysostomos’ Homilies XXV and XXVI on The Gospel of +John, Padre. I thought I could snip pieces of them here and there, but the whole is so good and holds together so well that really the best thing to do is read them in their entirety. The last part of XXV is particularly instructive about the Orthodox belief regarding what life the Christian is born into.
http://sacred-texts.com/chr/ecf/114/1140030.htm
http://sacred-texts.com/chr/ecf/114/1140031.htm
Suzy, sin is death because it is separation from God, Who is Life. The Orthodox do not look at sin (Greek: amartía) in juridical (western) sense. It means simply "missing the mark." A Hebrew word for sin has a similar meaning. The makr is Christ. The more Christ-like we become the less sinful we are. Becoming Christ-like involves self-denial; we, our ego, must cease to be a obstacle to God. Once we die unto ourselves we can be made alive in Chirst.
God saved the world from obligate death.
Adding to 7861, take a look at +John Chrysostomos’ Homilies XXV and XXVI on The Gospel of +John, Padre. I thought I could snip pieces of them here and there, but the whole is so good and holds together so well that really the best thing to do is read them in their entirety. The last part of XXV is particularly instructive about the Orthodox belief regarding what life the Christian is born into.
http://sacred-texts.com/chr/ecf/114/1140030.htm
http://sacred-texts.com/chr/ecf/114/1140031.htm
It’s okay.
According to Scripture, Jesus will accept you all back after flirting with Saint Calvin if you repent.
Sorry about having to give up the limo ride, though. You may want to toughen up your sandaled feet. It’s a hard road through the Via. You’ll actually have to be responsible for reaching out to God. You won’t be kidnapped, hijacked or have to worry about Stockholm Syndrome.
If you wish, confession is not limited to Catholics.
The Catholic Church has never said it contains the ONLY truth, just the FULLNESS of Truth that God has given to mankind through Jesus Christ. Even as far back as the second century, Church Fathers recognized that truth existed in "protoevangelium" form among the Greek philosophers and their recognition of the Logos.
Regards
You need to read more about hesychastic fathers and particularly about St. Gregory Palamas (13-14th century). It was +Palamas who established for the East the backbone of Orthodoxy precisely through monsticism and in rejection of western scholasticism. He did not re-invent the wheel Christianity was founded on hesychasm, from 3rd century desert fathers to Cappadocian fathers and beyond. It never changed.
Dr. E.
Most of the Scriptural support of Reformed view in this thread has been oblique at best. The Gospels have been shown over and over to speak to substantial differences in the Reformed view.
With that said, do you claim that those who land in hell like it? Are they pleased by it? Do they experience pleasure?
That is the question on the table.
I don’t understand. The Catholics all hold to original sin and hell. It is in the Bible and developed in the early Church.
What are you talking about?
I see. So the only truth that there is in the world outside of the Catholic Church is Greek philosphy. Is that right up to today re Greek philosophers?
Are you saying that the man without salvation will float on the lake of fire on his air mattress, reveling in the experience?
No surprise.
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