Posted on 07/22/2007 7:40:38 PM PDT by xzins
But is that out of love or some other prompting?
Romans 8:19
For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God.
8:20 For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope,
8:21 Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.
8:22 For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now.
It doesn't mean that all men will be spiritually reborn, but that a new creation is coming with Christ and the firstfruits leading the way
No, I will never eat it, but thanks
Yes, I was walking on air for a week.
Hey, don’t forget me in all this. :>)
An honor, according to the words of Christ. 8~)
"Blessed are ye, when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake. " -- Matthew 5:11
Aw shucks, twern’t nuthin’.
Then what happened in the Garden of Eden? Oh, wait, in the Reformed world, a cruel God who engineers man's Fall and suffering is really a loving Sovereign.
What effort is there for God to persevere? Obviously, it's no effort on our part. God is the one who does everything and we just enjoy the ride! Protestant God works for Christians rather than the other way around. Protestants just sit and get waited on by God! They don't have move a finger. God takes care of everything for them.
Let me get this straight: those who are given to Him (by Him!) are just "darn" lucky. And those who are not are just darn "unlucky." Too bad, so sad. The absurdity and insult leveled at a loving God by such theology is unspeakable.
If you morn the loss, then you love the world more than God, right?
Well, it appears that you are starting to get the idea.
Do you not experience joy in knowing that God is directing your steps? Does it not give you comfort to know that your salvation is not dependent upon what you do, but on what Christ has done and will do for you?
What percentage of Christ's sheep will be lost? Are you one of Christ's sheep?
I am sorry, but your assertion was that his death a blessing because of suffering. If someone is not suiffering, then no one calls death a blesisng. Early Christians considered it a privilege to suffer and die like the Lord (on the cross). If we are also faith-filled, like they were, then something is amiss.
Blessed are they that mourn: for they shall be comforted
There is a time for everything in its season
Ecc3:4 A time to weep, and a time to laugh; a time to mourn, and a time to dance;
P-Marlowe: Well, it appears that you are starting to get the idea
No, it simply shows that I know what the Reformed theology teaches. God doesn't wait on us, as the Reformed theology suggests. God made an offer to all mankind. Now it's up to us to imitate Christ and be saved, working out our own salvation through Him (cf Phil 2:12).
Do you not experience joy in knowing that God is directing your steps?
I experience joy in knowing that God loved us so much that suffered and died for us so that we may imitate Him and be saved through Him.
It is a humbling joy, not a boastful one. Not a joy of a robot who just sits and does whatever the operator tells it to do.
Actually, St. Luke says "will laugh." Those who mourn shall be comforted in their faith so as to not mourn but laugh.
If you read the Beatitudes to the end you will find that those who suffer, mourn, the meek, the merciful, the persecuted, the peacemakers, have reason to "Rejoice, and be exceeding glad: for great is your reward in heaven." (Mat 5:12)
As many as there are known to God who will leave Him and worship someone else.
He came back on his own. The father did not force him.
And what was God doing calling Adam "where are you?" in the Garden of Eden? Did He not know where Adam was and what he was doing? Of course He did. So was it just a game?
Tell me, P-Marlowe, does Jesus not know when one of His sheep is going to go astray? And if He knows, as we believe, then why is there even a chance of one going astray? Just so that God can leave everyone else and go after the one who is lost?
Does Christ enjoy hunting down the apostate sheep? Does Christ intentionally let some sheep fall away so that he can go and "find" them? It's absurd. Reformed forced love theology is absurd. God is not playing games. ;
***Reformed forced love theology is absurd.***
We love God because he first loved us. How is that forced?
Judaic interpretation, HD. Sorry. By that "logic" one would intentionally let his children fail so as to give them the opportunity to learn, through successive generations of death and destruction, how to appreciate what their forefathers had. It's absurd. If this is what reformed theology teaches, then it's absurd.
God created the angels knowing that He would throw out some of them
That is also absurd, HD. God created the angels knowing that some will fall away from Him on their own free will. But, if you follow Judaism and not Gospels, then you can surmise that angels cannot rebel against God— because they were created as obligate servants, so the only conclusion one can come up with is that God specifically created some angels to be discarded for no reason whatsoever! Absurd. Nothing short of absurd.
Because mutual love is a two-way street. It has to be free and it has to come from both hearts. It cannot be pre-programmed, or forced. Just because I love a girl before she meets me doesn't mean she has to love me once she does meet me! The fact that I lover her first does not oblige her to love me. Like I said, it's absurd.
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