Posted on 07/22/2007 7:40:38 PM PDT by xzins
“1Cr 14:33 For God is not [the author] of confusion, but of peace”
That has to do with what goes on in the meetings. In the same chapter Paul says that if any have a teaching let them do it in an orderly fashion so that all may be taught. That implies that there will be individual teachings from the persons attending the meeting, not just the professionals.
No problem.
You want AG to figure out what body of Christians is most accurately teaching/following the Scriptures (in a nutshell), correct?
I'm not asking her to "figure it out". I'm just asking if she *knows* it, or if she *believes* that denomination x comes closest to getting it right. If she doesn't know which denomination comes closest to getting it right, or doesn't have any belief about which denomination comes closest to getting it right, then she can just say, "I don't know."
Then all this disagreement between different religions is nonsense? No one should have a problem with Catholics that honor Mary if that is what the Holy Spirit tells us to do?
That is indeed an implication of relativism.
-A8
i don’t see where Paul limits the statement that God is not the author of confusion to meetings, I also don’t know of any scripture which aledges Christianity is necessarily chaotic or messy.
YOU: Because you are using the same gnostic methodology to justify your theological position. If we remain unaware of the *fundamental* causes of the errors of the heretics, then we will not be able to see whether we are heretics as well.
No, a heretic is following a false god. Just because we both walk on two feet does not mean we are going in the same direction.
And no one here is "unaware" of heretical errors. On the contrary, we have God's word specifically showing us right and wrong. And from my reading of the Bible I find the RCC littered with errors which are clearly denounced in Scripture.
In black and white, no less.
If there were no Bible, you would have a smidgeon of a point. Who are Protestants following then? Whose voice are they heeding?
But God did give us His word and show us His will in Scripture. And in that Scripture we are told that the Holy Spirit will guide our understanding of it and in doing so, we will recognize the truth of Christ risen.
And A8, happily I'm here to tell you that this is exactly what has happened in my life and in the lives of those who preach the word to you on this forum. The fruits of our lives are good and plentiful, just as God promised in Scripture.
I don't need more "proof" than that. Sadly, some in the RCC crave more assurance from the wrong sources, from Mary and dead people and trinkets and beads and icons and "other Christs" and various magical incantations which lean towards alchemy.
Thank you, no. Scripture clearly denounces those practices. God says to His sheep -- follow your conscience because it is a gift from me to you. And so it is.
"I say the truth in Christ, I lie not, my conscience also bearing me witness in the Holy Ghost" -- Romans 9:1
So we have Paul telling us our consciences, our minds and our thoughts and our intentions, are by the work of the Holy Spirit if we are His...
"Unto the pure all things are pure: but unto them that are defiled and unbelieving is nothing pure; but even their mind and conscience is defiled." -- Titus 1:15
And if we are His and the fruits of the Holy Spirit are in our lives, we need fear no man or reproach...
"for why is my liberty judged of another man's conscience?" -- 1 Corinthians 10:29
And how do we know our consciences are pure? And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance." -- Hebrews 9:14-15"How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?
So God washes our fallen consciences with the blood of Christ which equips us to worship Him in truth, according to the word of God. And how do we do this? We trust Him.
"Pray for us: for we trust we have a good conscience, in all things willing to live honestly." -- Hebrews 13:18
The RCC fears a man's conscience, instead coralling it with heavy gold chains and fences made with the stumblingblocks of idols.
As I have said, we deny not that laws enacted with a view to external policy ought to be carefully obeyed, but in regard to the regulation of the conscience, we hold that there is no legislator but God. To him alone, then, be reserved this authority, which he claims for himself in many passages of scripture. In this matter, however, were subverted, first, the honor of God, from which it is impious to derogate in any degree; and, secondly, genuine liberty of conscience - a liberty which, as Paul strenuously insists, must not be subjected to the will of men. As it was, therefore, our duty to deliver the consciences of the faithful from the undue bondage in which they were held, so we have taught that they are free and unfettered by human laws, and that this freedom, which was purchased by the blood of Christ, cannot be infringed. If anyone thinks we are blameable in this, he must attribute the same blame to Christ and his apostles..." "...And again, "Being justified by faith, we have peace with God" (Rom. 5:1); and no longer dread his presence. And he [Paul] intimates that everyone feels in his own experience, that our consciences cannot but be in perpetual disquietude and fluctuation, so long as we look for protection from works, and that we enjoy serene and placid tranquillity then only, when we have recourse to Christ as the only haven of true confidence. We add nothing to Paul's doctrine; but that restless dubiety of conscience, which he regards as absurd, is placed by our opponents among the primary axioms of their faith...
So when Mormons claim that the Holy Spirit is actually, truly leading them into Mormonism, are they mistaken?
-A8
ping to 504.
Wrong. The focus is on Christ.
“Which particular human beings [identified with proper names] and which denomination [identified with its proper name] most accurately conforms in its doctrine to the whole of the Apostle’s doctrine/teaching?”
The answer to that question/questions is found in Romans 8:14, “For as many as are led by the Spirit of God....” their doctrine will conform to the scriptures as revealed by the Spirit of Truth, the Holy Spirit.
IMHO, a lot of the doctrines and traditions of men stem from men trying to explain what God really meant instead of simply believing Him.
For instance, do not kill but kill these, that God does not change and yet the earnest prayers of a righteous man availeth much and He allows Abraham to plead for Sodom and Gomorrah, that God is One and yet Jesus Christ is God, His Name is I AM and also Alpha and Omega - and so on.
You just proved my point. Heretics of all time have claimed exactly the same thing, as St. Vinent of Lerins pointed out [here] in the fifth century.
You think you are special. You have the Scriptures, and therefore, you think that unlike all those other heretics of the past 2,000 years, you won't get it wrong. Of course, that's exactly what they all thought.
But God did give us His word and show us His will in Scripture. And in that Scripture we are told that the Holy Spirit will guide our understanding of it
How's that working out for you all? How many thousands of denominations are you up to now? I already pointed out to you in #237 that in your own view, the success rate for interpreting Scripture correctly is less than .005%. So, what kind of job is the Holy Spirit doing? You are essentially accusing the Holy Spirit of doing an extremely lousy job.
The fruits of our lives are good and plentiful, just as God promised in Scripture
Did God promise division upon divison to be a fruit of the Holy Spirit? Or is peace (i.e. reconciliation and unity) a fruit of the Spirit?
Why do you quote Calvin, as if Scripture is insufficient? What authority does Calvin have?
-A8
Likewise for Catholics, Orthodox, Baptists, Presbyterians, Methodists, et al. Refer back to post 403 for how I recognize a brother or sister in Christ.
-A8
Okay, so because I said “we believe”, to me just a matter of how I speak, does not mean that the Holy Spirit is not leading me.
I know I’m being led correctly. I’m Catholic. I truly, intimately know Him.
I’m not “Gritting one’s teeth, covering his ears, stomping the ground and muttering “Jesus Christ is Lord”.
Now what? How do you and I reconcile our differences or do they even matter? And if they don’t matter, why are all the non-Catholics trying to show us how wrong we are?
Those are not contradictory statements. Those are mere seeming contradictory statements. Therefore, you don't have to sacrifice the whole of theology in order to acknowledge those seeming contradictions. Mere seeming contradictions are fully compatible with logic.
-A8
It is a 'yes' or 'no' question.
-A8
betty boop is my dearest sister in Christ and she is Catholic - as is half of my family.
I do have concerns about Catholic teaching - mostly the doctrines and traditions of men which have accrued over two millenia. But the Jews are way ahead of you, they've been accruing doctrines and traditions of men for nearly four millenia. LOL!
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