Posted on 07/22/2007 7:40:38 PM PDT by xzins
It goes back a tad farther than Augustine.
I have no beef with your belief in the Trinity
Yet you beef about the Trinity.
That's what I mean OR. You argue you're ok with different beliefs - that's an important thing in your view - then you argue against different beliefs.
It's just an inconsistent argument.
Certainly Mary declared herself a handmaid. She accepted. Gabriel did not label her as such. She self-described. A handmaid is a servant, unquestionably. Not a slave, and not a robot slave. She did, of her own volition, with the Holy Spirit already in her.
Preordained? Quite possibly. But the fact is that she, of her own free will accepted.
First, God is the God of the living. As Matthew 22:32 says: “ ‘I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob’? He is not God of the dead, but of the living.’” Our souls never die or “sleep” but after death we are judged. Those that enter Heaven live in joy forever. These are saints. Also, when Moses and Elijah appeared at Jesus’ transfiguration, were they not alive in God or where those simply manifestations that Jesus called forth? It’s clear they were alive.
After a whole chapter describing the ancient people of faith in Hebrews 11, Hebrews 12:1 goes on to say, “Since we are surrounded by such a great cloud of witnesses...” What possible interpretation can anyone give but that those who have died are aware of us and are watching us? The saints in Heaven continuously intercede for mankind (CCC 956).
You are, of course, quite correct, except that I would, as a Catholic, not refer to God as mine or ours.
I am His. I am His Creature, made in His image. There are many people here who seem to refer to their own personal god made in their own personal image while making up their own personal theologies.
Nice to hear from you. Are we on speaking terms again?
LOL!
Me too.
Hebrewa 9:
[27] And just as it is appointed for men to die once, and after that comes judgment,
Will your exercise of "free will" change this?
:::My church isn’t even a Calvinist church, but I can assure you that we have no “long, flowing hair” wafting about on stage distracting the congregation from their worship. :) Our pulpit is a waft-free zone!!!:::
Well, the Crystal Cathedral is definitely not a waft free zone. Dr. Robert Schuller and his son both are ordained in the Reformed Church in America, which has as its belief system:
The final authority in the Reformed faith is Holy Scripture, the living Word of God, spoken to everyone through the Holy Spirit of God. The Holy Spirit takes the Word of God and makes it real and actual in our lives. This has always been and will always be the authentic wellspring of Reformed faith.
The following confessions and creeds are statements of Reformed beliefs:
Three historic documents—the Belgic Confession, the Heidelberg Catechism, and the Canons of Dort
Three historic creeds—the Apostles’ Creed, the Nicene Creed, and the Athanasian Creed
I’m not sure how I’d square Dr. Schuller’s Sunday morning performances with some of the folks here, so I’m guessing that there is Reformed and there is Reformed!!!
:::I surely agree that some of the mega-churches are over-hyped and have a watered-down message in order to “reach” (cater to) the most people. This is ridiculous and unscriptural. God’s word is God’s word and should be preached regardless of how many people will like it at the first hearing. The truth can’t be compromised like that. Even if milk is on the menu, there are good ways to serve it and bad ways too.:::
We have further agreement on the new mega churches. But where we may differ is on the menu - we prefer to get to the meat of the matter. :)
:::A seal is a mark, a “tattoo”, something that says we are ‘God’s property’. It is not something that prevents you from falling away. Practically speaking, people who have been “sealed” have fallen away and are no longer Christian, so this reality proves that interpretation incorrect.:::
Absolutely correct. There is a young lady who works for our company that has a tattoo of the Virgin Mary on the right side of her neck, along with several crosses. She is also a libertine druggie and an aggressive predatory lesbian.
A book cover may diverge from the book’s contents.
If I am misusing the definitions of the Church, by all means please correct me. I guess that I’m still confused as to which ones I misused.
Could you point them out to me again please?
:::Of course I haven’t sold my will and intellect to the Magisterium.:::
Neither have we. We subjugate ourselves to God using the instructions and the institution that God, and then the person of Christ, left to us.
No selling, no buying. Just reaching out for the grace of God so that we can experience His promises to us.
Our exercise of free will obviously does not include whether or not we die. Nor does it preclude our being judged (in spite of some folks’ opinions who post here).
Are you saying that Mary had no free will at all about this in spite of her acceptance of it?
Not the addenda.
"Gave" is more appropriate.
Code Of Canon Law Book 3, Part o
Canon 752
While the assent of faith is not required, a religious submission of intellect and will is to be given to any doctrine which either the Supreme Pontiff or the College of Bishops, exercising their authentic Magisterium, declare upon a matter of faith and morals, even though they do not intend to proclaim that doctrine by definitive act. Christ's faithful are therefore to ensure that they avoid whatever does not accord with that doctrine.
Go along or get out.
Perhaps it's easy for you to forget; no one can read your mind. But it's not so easy for Bible-believing Christians to forget the errors you've already admitted you made.
Mark, you wrongly attributed your church's belief in "infused" righteousness to the Calvinists, when "infused" righteousness is the belief and statement of your own catechism (as you were shown from the catechism). However, the word "infused" appears nowhere in Scripture, nor in any Protestant denomination I know of, most especially not among the Reformed.
As the Bible tells us, we are saved by Christ's "imputed" righteousness, and not our own. His obedience saves; His righteousness saves; His sacrifice saves, which are "imputed" to us (reckoned to our account) by God alone.
You were corrected in post 10,043 which also listed the other posts that corrected your error -- Harley (post 9,909), Frumanchu (10,027), me (post 9,921).
And finally, you ADMITTED your mistake in post #10,050...
"MARKBSNR: You are correct. I was not using the correct terminology or definitions..."
That is not being argued. What is being argued is that the souls who have departed from this earthly existence are referred to as "dead", and are not to be attempted to be contacted on any level, as it is prohibited by God in the Scriptures.
1 Corinthians 15:12 Now if Christ is preached that He has been raised from the dead, how do some among you say that there is no resurrection of the dead?
Departed souls are referred to as "the dead".
Because the souls of departed saints are alive in eternity is not license to break the commandment of God against attempts to contact the souls of those who have departed this space/time continuum.
Neither have we.
Of course you have. You have to take what the magesterium teaches you on pure, blind faith, or else you are relying on "private interpretation".
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