Preaching a Pre-Tribulation Rapture Weakens the Church

ArriveNet ^ | July 7, 2007 | J. Grant Swank, Jr.

[Quix]

Trying to compare the destruction of the Temple in the 1st century to what Danial predicted is simply nonsense.

The Tribulation is spoken of the worst times in human history (Matt.24:21), and that hasn’t happened yet and it certanily didn’t happen in the 1st century!

= = =

INDEED. UTTER NONSENSE.

Even UDDER NONSENSE—worse than a cow with mastitis.

[William Terrell]

I've always though of the Tribulation as being in the future (from now). You say it's already happened?

[Quix]

GOODNESS NO!

TRIBULATION . . . is still future as far as I can tell though a friend of mine thinks we’ve started into it.

I think we are just in the birth pangs leading up to it.

How many of my posts have you read? I’m pretty well known for this perspective, hereon.

[William Terrell]

Well, did I misunderstand this post?

The Tribulation is spoken of the worst times in human history (Matt.24:21), and that hasn’t happened yet and it certanily didn’t happen in the 1st century!

= = =

INDEED. UTTER NONSENSE.

[Seven_0]

Shushan is another name for Susa....the capital of Persia during the reign of Xerxes....also known as Ahasuerus. Xerxes was the Greek spelling. He was king in Persia about 424 B.C. This would have been 100 years after the return from Babylon spoken of in Ezra and Nehemiah.

It appears that this date is about 100 years different than the calculation of Archbishop Ussher. I have no problem with it, but it cast doubt an the accuracy of Josephus, whom you have used elsewhere to support your position

First of all....you must understand that Jerusalem is in Asia.....

Are you trying to say that the Jews of Jerusalem were the “Jews of Asia” referenced in Acts 21:27? The maps in my bible show Asia is the same area as the seven churches in Revelation1, south of the Black Sea.

Who are you going to believe?

Seven

[editor-surveyor]

"Nothing in the Bible indicates the church in an Age of Apostasy will be “raptured” out and not face the winnowing process that has been the fate of Christians in every age."

You need to re-read the parable of the wise virgins a few hundred more times, until it sinks in. Also read the letter to the Philadelphian congregation in Revelation. The message is there, and it is strong; you just don't want to believe it.

[editor-surveyor]

“The belief in a secret rapture of believers before the tribulation”

Ummm, trust me it won’t be a secret.

Amen!

The writings of occultists have planned for a response to that rapture for more than 1000 years. Do they know something that the A-mil gang doesn't?

[Quix]

Well, did I misunderstand this post?
The Tribulation is spoken of the worst times in human history (Matt.24:21), and that hasn’t happened yet and it certanily didn’t happen in the 1st century!

= = =

INDEED. UTTER NONSENSE.

= = = =

Sorry. I guess I was too cryptic.

I was agreeing with the poster that:

THIS POST BELOW WAS QUITE TRUE AND THAT ANYTHING TO THE CONTRARY WAS UTTER NONSENSE.

The Tribulation is spoken of the worst times in human history (Matt.24:21), and that hasn’t happened yet and it certanily didn’t happen in the 1st century!

[fortheDeclaration]

Trying to compare the destruction of the Temple in the 1st century to what Danial predicted is simply nonsense. The Tribulation is spoken of the worst times in human history (Matt.24:21), and that hasn’t happened yet and it certanily didn’t happen in the 1st century!

Amen.

The Nazi holocaust was far worse then the destruction of Jerusalem.

The future will be even worse.

[fortheDeclaration]

I do understand what you are saying. The best advise I could give is sign off with Bible verses. God says that his Word would not return to him void (Isaiah 55:11). People can dismiss you and your interpretations, but they CANNOT dismiss God's Word and the conviction of the Holy Spirit.

Amen.

A man that is a heretic after the first and second admonition reject; knowing that he that is such is subverted and sinneth, being condemned in himself. (Tit.3:10)

[fortheDeclaration]

The fact is that by the time Christ was born, the tribes had intermarried so much that it was almost impossible to determine which tribe you were. Only God knew.

Amen.

[fortheDeclaration]

The "Nation" of Israel is not the same as the "House" of Israel. The 10 tribes (considered the lost tribes) were of the north. I don't know the year of the map you pictured but all the tribes were there at one time. Also remember, that today many that don't understand the separation, improperly consider Israel as Jews.

First, no in is saying that the nation of Israel is the House of Israel.

The House of Israel and House of Judea are a divided kingdom.

Second, many people from the Northern Kingdom did in fact stay with the South.

Third, those same tribes, called the house of Israel are referred to by Peter as being responsible for crucfying the Lord. (Acts.2:36)

They couldn't have been responsible if they were not present.

Now, reuniting by the Lord of the two Kingdoms will occur when the Lord reestablishes the Davidic Covenant under Christ.

No Gentile nations are being blessed as Israel.

The Jews are composed of all 12 tribes, since Christ is King of the Jews, all 12 tribes, not just 3.

Thus, the notion that because Israelites are not directly called Jews is simply 'straining at a gnat' because they are indirectly called so.

My point being; is this a current map of Israel, the nation of Israel or is it one of long ago when all tribes were there? Even the name on your map separates them by saying - The kingdoms of Israel and Judah. There is a difference.

No one disputes the fact that Israel and Judah divided, but the fact is that when they returned, they returned with members from all 12 tribes, not just 3.

Likewise those Israelites who did not return to Israel, but remained in the Persian Kingom were also called Jews (Esth.3:13) and those lands were the same lands that the Assyrians had taken the original 10 tribes to.

Thus, by then, they were being called Jews also.

[fortheDeclaration]

They will be joined but that is yet future:

They are now intermingled together as one people.

In the future, they will be identified as by tribe and that is what is being discussed when the Kingdom is reunited both North and South.

What is most certain is that no Gentile nations are being blessed as Israelites.

[fortheDeclaration]

Frankly I don't know why anyone feels the need to make a big deal about it. I don't plan on being here when it happens. When the age of the Gentiles is complete, I expect to be sitting down at the Marriage Supper of the Lamb. I expect to be sitting down for a feast when God pours out his wrath upon the earth.

Amen.

[fortheDeclaration]

Amen to your post!

[fortheDeclaration]

Aren't you weary of kicking against those pricks of truth? God wants you to know these things. Because some churches don't know or teach them doesn't mean you must stay in the dark about the issue.

Aren't you tired of wresting scripture? (2Pe.3:15).

What I wanted to do, I have accomplished.

I have 'outed' all of you, Diego, you and 'truth' as British-Israelites, something you were trying to hide and deny, particulary Diego.

No Gentile nations are being blessed as Israelites, they are blessed for protecting and caring for them-which means all 12 tribes that we know as Jews.

[fortheDeclaration]

It is also very disingenuous to harp and harp on about all the Nation of Israel being Jewish. The scriptures do not back you up.....time after time after time!

Ofcourse the nation of Israel is Jewish, it is filled with Jews!

It just isn't the Kingdom of Israel yet.

Now, you keep talking about this 'plan' but seem very hestiant to state it clearly.

So why is the United States being blessed?

I say it is because they bless Israel (Gen.12)(Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob).

As for scripture, you don't have any scriptures, you have a bunch of Greek and Hebew lexicons of languages you can't even read.

[fortheDeclaration]

Just as I thought, you are unable to read a clear English sentence.

Peter is not telling them those listening to witness to the house of Israel since those listening aren't even saved yet.

He is speaking to those of the house of Israel as the crucifiers of Christ since it is they who then ask what must they do.

36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made the same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.

37 Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?

Clearly, you lose-the house of Israel were known as Jews as well.

But your problem is clear from Scripture

2Tim. 3.

6 For of this sort are they which creep into houses, and lead captive silly women laden with sins, led away with divers lusts, 7 Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.

[fortheDeclaration]

I do believe the tribes migrated (after being dispersed) and I believe they are the Christian nations of today, especially this "One Nation Under God". We are here for a reason and I see God's hand in it.

Alright, but that is the essence of British Israelitism.

Yes, America is here for a reason, but America has nothing to do with any lost tribes.

[fortheDeclaration]

"That view" - British Israelitism - is the pit you are trying to push me (and others) into, but it's not what I posted. Tribes assimilated among the nations would have ended up in a lot of places, Britain included. I might as well demand that because you have the belief in the trinity in common with the RCC, you should just admit that your belief system is Catholic. Not to do so would be disingenuous. But that would be absurd.

Not if your view follows the essential tenet of British-Israelism, that the 'lost tribes' are now Gentile nations.

You are arguing about particulars of that view, not the essential issue which is that Israelites are not Jews and they are now someone else.

And you consider the United States one of those nations.