Posted on 06/06/2007 6:13:02 AM PDT by HarleyD
There is no second chance given to those who have been sentenced to eternal torment. The decisions made in life find their eternal consequences fully carried out after death.
There is no second chance but consider that many are not given a first chance because of what they are taught as being truth. For that reason and the following scripture I disagree with the writer's statement.
Rev.20:5. But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
So those consequences couldn't be carried out after death, unless he means after the 1,000 years. They will be taught, without the influence of Satan, during the millennium and will not be thrown into the lake of fire unless they are "not found written in the book of life" (Rev.20:15)
The writer believes, "Those righteous who are raised before the millennium in Revelation 20 are the martyrs of the Great Tribulation (cf. Revelation 20:4). Those who are later raised at the end of the millennium are the wicked, who are cast into the lake of fire".
I don't understand how he comes to that understanding when it states, "And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened; and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, acording to their works (Rev.20:12).
Those, that had been considered "dead" for the 1,000 years, are the spiritually dead (not of the first resurrection) and they will be judged "according to their works". They can't be, as he stated, "the wicked who are cast into the lake of fire", at least not all. The ones that Satan deceives when he is released again will get thrown in.
Revelation 14:9-11—And another angel, a third one, followed them, saying with a loud voice, “If anyone worships the beast and his image, and receives a mark on his forehead or upon his hand, he also will drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is mixed in full strength in the cup of His anger; and he will be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb. And the smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever; and they have no rest day and night, those who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name.”
This is a warning people must consider. The false christ comes first, pretending to be our Savior and many that haven't been taught that fact will fall for his deceit. If they worship him and believe his lies (the mark in his forehead), or do any work to help his lies prosper (a mark upon his hand), they will not be of the first resurrection, even if they did these things unknowingly, believing Satan was Christ. They must be taught through the millennium and tested again at it's end.
The writer further states: "Attempting to draw all of the biblical data together, we can say that one’s eternal torment is forever sealed at the time of death. Unbelievers immediately enter into the temporary torment of Sheol or Hades, from which they will eventually be cast into the lake of fire. They are in constant and conscious agony, which endures for eternity. They will have no second chance to change their status."
That isn't Biblical. I believe the story of Lazarus and the rich man is true. There is a gulf in heaven that cannot be crossed. At Jesus's 2nd advent we are all judged as far as which side we will spend the 1,000 years. At the end of the millennium the "great white throne judgement" happens and then there will be the lake of fire. The torment during that time would be that ones on the wrong side will be fully aware of where they are and what may happen.
He concludes with: "Besides this, man goes to eternal torment because he has chosen to do so. Hell is not only God giving men what they deserve; He is giving them what they want:.....Nobody stands under the wrath of God save those who have chosen to do so.
After they have been taught for the millennium without Satan's deceit and know truth - that statement is very true - they have chosen it.
Finally, the doctrine of eternal judgment should motivate the Christian to take evangelism seriously. If men and women are going to spend eternity in torment, apart from the living God, it is imperative that we warn them of the danger they are in.
We would do that because we want others to find God but also it is imperative for our own souls:
Ezekiel 33:8 When I say unto the wicked, 'O wicked man, thou shalt surely die;' if thou does not speak to warn the wicked from his way, that wicked man shall die in his iniquity; but his blood will I require at thine hand.
.......Ping
What you're saying is that you're really a universalist. There is no hell, only heaven; no sin only doing good. Murdering, lying, cheating, stealing, etc., are not really going against God's commands.
That is why we have different religions.
In all the major religions of the world, there are standards. Just as God has instilled within you the knowledge of Himself, He also has instilled within you a knowledge of those standards. You know perfectly well murdering, lying, stealing, etc. all goes against the standards of God and they go against your nature as well. You can see this in our justice system which is wrapped around these standards. Yet you, as well as the rest of us, do them.
God understands this as well and has given us a path of correction. While we may wish to try to correct this problem ourselves, only God can correct it. That is what separates Christianity from the rest of the religions.
I’m not familiar with universalism. I certainly hope there is something like heaven after death. You are correct in that I do not believe in sin as an offense to God, but I don’t think we all do good. I believe that if God truly has a plan for each of us, then whatever we do , must be part of His plan, regardless of whether it seems good or evil.
I believe, in some instances, depending on when and where in history, such things have not been considered evil and have actually been accepted as a standard. I believe God has instilled different standards in different people throughout history. Yes they go against my nature, and that is one of the many reasons I give thanks to God daily.
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