Posted on 06/02/2007 9:28:09 AM PDT by bremenboy
Not even close...You ask Jesus to do something...To perform a work in you...Not the other way around...
Ephesians 2:10 -- For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.
The problem I have noticed is that many have mistaken "belief" for "faith", and then created an artificial divide between faith and works that is not Scriptural.
My thoughts are that this erroneous position is the result of the desire for a complete separation from the positions of the RCC, a reaction by its originators' desire to run as far from the RCC as possible. I believe they ran too far, and threw the baby out with the bath water.
If that be so then would you say that asking Jesus to perform a work in you is something you must do to be saved?
There is three types of Faith i find in the Bible
1. The Faith that you have in the truth of God's word for instance He who believes and is Baptized will be saved if you believe God you will do what he teaches you to do that is why only those who will be saved will have been taught of God.
Joh 6:45 It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me.
2. A Dead faith.Jas 2:19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.
Jas 2:26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also..
3. The Faith which is the doctrine of Christ in its entirety.
Jud 1:3 Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints.
Act 6:7 And the word of God increased; and the number of the disciples multiplied in Jerusalem greatly; and a great company of the priests were obedient to the faith.
Rom 1:5 By whom we have received grace and apostleship, for obedience to the faith among all nations, for his name;
2Co 13:5 Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?
I would agree that there are no Entrance Exams Their are however Entrance requirements example of one is
Joh 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
We may disagree as to what is involved in meeting that entrance requirement but I think we both can agree it is required. I believe when one exam's what the baptist teach regarding this requirement that they are in error. If so can't be in kingdom. I believe therefor I speak
If you accept Jesus as your Savior, you’re in
Is that what you truly believe? If so what about accepting him as Lord? there is a difference between accepting him as your savior and accepting him as your lord. if we want to be saved we need to accept him as both Lord and savior
A lord is one who has authority
1Co 14:37 If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord.
If we accept him as our savor but deny him as Lord by not doing his will. Can we still be saved?
Kinda splittin' hairs there...
When I got saved, I was desperate...I'd run out of answers...I acknowledged to myself and to God that I couldn't go on by myself...I asked Him to take over...I was makin' a mess of things...
And He did...
Unless we have absolutely no free will, we have to DO something to be saved. As I’ve already pointed out on this thread, even belief is a “work” (John 6:29). The Bible teaches that faith and works are inseparable. The only question is to what sort of works is It referring?
I am aware of five types of works described in the New Testament:
(1) Works of the Law (don’t save);
(2) Works of man (don’t save);
(3) Works of evil (’nough said);
(4) Works of/by God (the ultimate work of God, Jesus, enables our salvation);
(5) Works of faith (unto salvation);
Works of faith - that is, man’s response to God’s gracious offer of justification and righteousness - lead to salvation.
What are these works of faith? They are described individually and communally throughout the New Testament.
* Hearing the gospel (Romans 10:13-15)
* Belief in the gospel (John 3:16);
* Confession of one’s belief (Romans 10:9);
* water immersion Baptism for the remission of one’s sins (Acts 2:38);
* Continuation in faith (Romans 11:22);
The idea that there is something called “faith” that is distinct and separate from something called “works” is non-Scriptural, “a philosophy... according to the tradition of men”. A review of the examples given in Romans 4, Hebrews 7, 1Peter 3, and James 2, shows that each and every example of a patriarch’s faith is demonstrated by a belief-based action: a work of faith. If no such faith-based work exists, there is no way to judge the authenticity of belief. Is a person’s faith dead or alive? Only action as a result of belief demonstrates a living faith.
There was a time when I truly believed the faith-without-works, belief-only teaching. Along this thought process, I rejected the necessity of baptism for the remission of sin. As so many other do, I simply glossed over key passages that screamed the truth to me. Essentially, I was reading the word and conforming it to my view. I was not allowing God’s Word to conform me to His Will.
It was a Bible study with a very gifted preacher that changed my life. He did nothing but ask me to perform a study on baptism so that we could go through it together. Knowing his belief, I accepted his challenge and set about an exhaustive study of baptism. I had in my heart a desire to prove him wrong, and show him the truth. I poured through the Scripture, looking at every direct passage on baptism and every inference made. When I was done, the Bible’s clear teaching was inescapable. More than baptism, I had learned the falsity of the faith-works separation. Suddenly, the book of James made perfect sense, as did so many other passages that perplexed me over the years.
At our next study I presented my findings, discussed it in detail, and was then-and-there baptized for the remission of my sins. Once the truth is found out, a heavy load is removed. When clarity arrives after the fog lifts, one can see details that were once obscured.
Ping to post 147.
Sorry to have excluded you.
Now lest see The Bible + nothing will make Christians and Christians only.The Bible + The baptist Manuel Makes Baptist The bible + the book of Mormons Makes Mormons The Bible + the The Westminster Confession Of Faith makes Presbyterians.and so on and so on.
so who is really being contentious
Anybody who read the Bible with a open mind and a honest heart will learn the Truth
I don't recall never Answer any of your Questions I do recall your refusal to answer many of mine
but just in case I didn't here I go and this would be true for any one not just The eastern orthodox.
all who believe and are baptized for the remission of sins are add to the family of God and are my brothers and sisters.
I don't recall never Answer any of your Questions I do recall your refusal to answer many of mine
but just in case I didn't here I go and this would be true for any one not just The eastern orthodox.
all who believe and are baptized for the remission of sins are add to the family of God and are my brothers and sisters.
***I don’t recall never Answer any of your Questions I do recall your refusal to answer many of mine
but just in case I didn’t here I go and this would be true for any one not just The eastern orthodox.
all who believe and are baptized for the remission of sins are add to the family of God and are my brothers and sisters.***
Well, lets see. If a person converts to Eastern Orthodox religion and is baptized by them in water for remission of sin and continues in communion with the Orthodox are they your brothers in the Lord or not?
I asked the local C of C pastor the same question and he SAID NO, they were not.
I do and I have. What’s in this “message” isn’t the truth regarding the Baptist church.
*** He did nothing but ask me to perform a study on baptism so that we could go through it together. Knowing his belief, I accepted his challenge and set about an exhaustive study of baptism.***
I had one try the same thing on me years ago but a friend showed me there are other meanings to the word Baptizo than just immersion in water.
Then my own studies showed that there was even more they didn’t go into about baptism.
400 years before Christ the word for immersion was “bapto” for dipping and removing from a fluid. “Baptizo” ment a permanent submersion that makes a change in the person or object being submerged. A better word would be “to drown”.
However, word meanings evolve over years just as our in own language certain words mean something different from 500 years ago.
By the time of christ it meant “purify” such as in sprinkling of various items or people. It also meant into water (in and out). it still had the meaning of being permanently placed into something that influenced the person being placed into it such as death. Knowing the difference is important.
When Paul mentions “Baptized INTO Christ” in his many letters he meant being placed permanently into CHRIST, not water.
Rom 6:3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
Rom 6:4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
Please notice that there is NO water mentioned anywhere here. The baptism in INTO Christ which causes a permanent change in the believer.
Paul was not even sent to baptize people, even though he did. He was to preach the word.
By 100 AD the word Baptize meant to dip in and out of water, sprinkle, and pour.
No time for chapters and verse. it will make this post too long.
Bremenboy, and other C of C adherants and I have been sparring over this for several years. I also have fun with aptists over this.
One time, like your study with the immersionist preacher, a Seventh Day Adventist (Amazing Facts)tried to guide me through a study on the Sabbath. I went through but didn’t fall for that error either.
Too bad you can’t sing “Blessed Assurance Jesus is mine” in your faith.
***I also have fun with aptists over this.***
Where did the B go as in Baptists?
Proofread.
Proofread
Proof read!
The “form” of baptism is not central to the theme of my post. I believe baptism consists of immersion in water. I believe Scripture strongly supports this view. If you don’t, that’s fine by me. I’m willing to let God cast His judgment on the matter.
The point of my posting is to bring forth the erroneous and non-Scriptural dividing of faith and works. My study of baptism was simply the vehicle by which I reached an important truth.
***The point of my posting is to bring forth the erroneous and non-Scriptural dividing of faith and works.***
Well this should clarify works.
Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: [it is] the gift of God:
Eph 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
Eph 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
All good Scriptures.
Ah, now you've hit the nail on the head but you're wrong to believe this to be strictly a Baptist problem. This is precisely the error that is taught today that most refuse to acknowledge. How can you pray if you can do nothing good, doesn't faith come from God, and isn't prayer in itself a good work? How could all this happen BEFORE one is made capable and equiped to do these good deeds?
There are only two schools of thought; 1) either God instills in you faith and gives you the desire and ability to ask forgiveness BEFORE you prayer, or 2) you generated it on your own behalf. This isn't just a Baptist issue but a fundamental Christian issue. Most people today are in the #2 camp.
I would agree that "when one goes down the road of false Doctrine one will hit a dead end" but I would suggest #2 is the dead end.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.