Posted on 05/26/2007 4:32:30 PM PDT by Titanites
Where precisely does your faith come from? Answer that question honestly and you'll end up in La-La Land.
That is 2 questions.
How do I know God chose to save me?
because I could never save myself, I would never have even looked for God left to my devises
Why do I believe I am saved?
Because I have an internal witness of the Holy Spirit
Really?
Are you claiming that you EARNED your salvation by believing?
From the word of God --- you know --- from scriptures like this in Romans 4:5:
"But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness".
Do you believe these words or not??? Believing God's word is not a work ----
Believing has nothing to do with "earning" salvation. Believing is not a work. You do believe that scripture, don't you??? Romans 4:5 is quite clear ----
The question was "What have you done to earn your salvation?" You seem to be supporting the idea that by believing, you have earned it.
Is it something you must do to earn salvation?
If you don't do it will you "lose" your salvation?
Responding to your ping:
Comments:
(1) The early Church Fathers do not determine the meaning of Scripture. Scripture determines the meaning of Scripture.
(2) The author of that piece probably never understood substitutionary atonement either before or after his move to Rome.
I will read the rest of the thread later.
Is “believing” a “work” according to Romans 5:4???? Yes or No ——
When you read it, you will be amused.
If your belief comes from God, then it is not a work of man, but a work of God. If you came to your belief on your own without the direct intervention of the Holy Spirit, then your belief (such as it is) is a work and it will not save you.
Did God draw you to him?
Is your belief the product of God directly intervening in your life to bring you to a saving faith in Christ?
Or is this something that you did on your own?
Do believing and receiving involve a function of the will?
Is belief something you do? Is receiving something you do?
Isn't that what Paul says in Romans 5:4???? Yes or No ——
So is "breathing" --- Is that "a work"?
Is breathing a moral, volitional act?
Yes.
Now answer my questions.
Did God draw you to him?
Is your belief the product of God directly intervening in your life to bring you to a saving faith in Christ?
Or is this something that you did on your own?
Yes or no.
Unfortunately there is much guilt to go around among defenders of both Catholic and Reformed doctrine. There are possibly more posters who are engaged in sincere and inquisitive discource, but these voices often seem overwhelmed by those involved in theology baiting and name calling, much of it based on ignorance ("Calvinism is intellectually lazy", "Catholics believe that Mary is the redeemer", etc.)
Converted protestants often make the best Catholics (Fr. Neuhaus, Cardinal Newman, etc.) I'm not sure that the same would hold true in the other direction since the days of the original reformers.
It is if you want to live --- though it is also autonomic.
After this post I am going to lay down and rest for 5 minutes. Just because I am exercising my will and choosing to do so, does that make my 5 minute nap "a work"???
It is indeed autonomic, and as a matter of course it is NOT a moral act. The act of breathing is not in and of itself a moral act of the will.
After this post I am going to lay down and rest for 5 minutes. Just because I am exercising my will and choosing to do so, does that make my 5 minute nap "a work"???
That depends entirely upon whether or not a moral inclination is the impetus for it. If you are doing so as the outworking of a moral choice you are facing, then indeed it is.
Perhaps, since you seem so intent on insisting faith is not a work, you could define for us exactly what a work IS.
Yes.
Good ---- then believing in God's word is not a work.
Did God draw you to him?
He certainly did just as He does to all men as the scripture says: "If I be lifted up from the earth, I will draw all men unto me". But He didn't say that He would make all men believe in him.
Is your belief the product of God directly intervening in your life to bring you to a saving faith in Christ?
Yes --- just as He promises to intervene in everyone's life to draw them to His Son, but believing in the salvation that He provides through His word was still ultimately in my hands not His. I couldn't "work" my way to eternal life, but I could "believe" in the work that God had done as revealed through His Word. My "believing" was not "a work" anymore than opening my hands to receive a gift at Christmas time is a work or an effort on my part.
Is opening your hands to receive a gift an effort for you? Is it work to accept a gift?
Or is this something that you did on your own?
I did nothing more or less than Abraham, who believed God, and his belief was not a work, as you have correctly acknowledged. But his belief was accounted to him for righteousness.
Has your belief in God's Word been accounted to you for righteousness, like Abraham's was, or do you consider it work to open your bible and receive what is written therein?
Lucifer BELIEVES in God, yet he is fallen. Belief without love of the Lord is nothing at all.
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