Did the Ten Commandments Exist Before Moses?

The New Covenant:: Does it Abolish God's Law? ^ | Spring 2007 | Various

[Andrew Byler]

Can you sum up your viewpoint on just what natural law is?

Natural Law is that law within us where, if we were to observe one man doing away with another man because of something the second man had done, we would either help or at least not hinder the first man in carrying out his doing away of the second man because it is in accord with our inner notions of justice and right.

I.e., a man one catches man two attempting to murder a member of man one's family, or steal something from man one, or undermine the society man one belongs to, or commit adultery with man one's wife, or rape man one's daughter, or kidnap man one's son, etc. And man one, having caught man two, is observed by man three who either applauds or helps man one do away with man two.

Natural Law is the mode of justice which naturally occurs among men in the absence of State authority - i.e. in a frontier or wilderness, during natural disasters, etc., or which even springs up spontaneously in a civilized judicial culture in the absence of an immediate police presence during the commission of a crime (i.e. the rough justice given out to a mugger caught by the citizenry, or an intruder shot in a house).

Natural Law is the natural condemnation of murder, theft, adultery, lying, blasphemy, sacrilege, treason, rape, kidnapping, etc. because these things are wrong and harmful in and of themselves, and we know it without God revealing it to us by light of our own reason about how society is best ordered for the preservation of everyone's enjoyment of their life, liberty, and property.

[Iscool]

But the FRUITS of Christian living is that we will OBEY the ten commandments of our Lord.

As much as we can...But willingly, not as a debt...Not as a requirment for salvation...But because God has put it in our hearts to want to do so...

And if we fail, which we always do, we do not require a sacrifice as those did under the 10 Commandments...We have already received the Sacrifice...Once for all...

[RightWhale]

You’ve never heard of it either?

It is hardly singular. There are as many species as there are philosophers and theologicians. The Natural law most in use pertains to the state, but the Natural law of morals might be worth discussion although it's been done.

[DouglasKC]

Natural Law is the natural condemnation of murder, theft, adultery, lying, blasphemy, sacrilege, treason, rape, kidnapping, etc. because these things are wrong and harmful in and of themselves, and we know it without God revealing it to us by light of our own reason about how society is best ordered for the preservation of everyone's enjoyment of their life, liberty, and property.

Basically it sounds like socialization...or how we are taught what "civilization" should be like. I think man can be taught to embrace all of the ills listed above given enough time and social pressure. A great case in point is abortion.

[Logophile]

As much as we can...But willingly, not as a debt...Not as a requirment for salvation...But because God has put it in our hearts to want to do so... And if we fail, which we always do, we do not require a sacrifice as those did under the 10 Commandments...We have already received the Sacrifice...Once for all...

I have always thought that Jesus requires obedience as a requirement for salvation:

17 ¶ And when he was gone forth into the way, there came one running, and kneeled to him, and asked him, Good Master, what shall I do that I may inherit eternal life?

18 And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God.

19 Thou knowest the commandments, Do not commit adultery, Do not kill, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Defraud not, Honor thy father and mother.

20 And he answered and said unto him, Master, all these have I observed from my youth.

21 Then Jesus beholding him loved him, and said unto him, One thing thou lackest: go thy way, sell whatsoever thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, take up the cross, and follow me.

22 And he was sad at that saying, and went away grieved: for he had great possessions. (Mark 10:17–22)

It appears to me that not only must we obey the Ten Commandments to inherit eternal life; we are also called to "take up the cross" and follow Jesus.

Am I missing something?

[DouglasKC]

As much as we can...But willingly, not as a debt...Not as a requirment for salvation...But because God has put it in our hearts to want to do so...

I agree. But we can do a lot with the spirit of Christ indwelling. We can overcome a myriad of sins and shortcomings by letting his spirit lead. But NOT trying, not overcoming, is tantamount to rejecting, not following, the spirit of Christ.

[ScubieNuc]

Hey Doug,

Just a question....Is there a reason you posted this on the Sabbath?

I’m assuming you don’t see posting as work.

Sincerely

[DouglasKC]

Hey Doug, Just a question....Is there a reason you posted this on the Sabbath? I’m assuming you don’t see posting as work. Sincerely

I see it as spreading the word of God and the gospel of Christ. It's not work at all, it's joyful and part of what the sabbath was intended to be.

[ScubieNuc]

It appears to me that not only must we obey the Ten Commandments to inherit eternal life; we are also called to "take up the cross" and follow Jesus.

Am I missing something?

Yep. The context of when those verses were given. (Hint: It was before Christ fulfilled the law.)

Sincerely

[ScubieNuc]

It's not work at all, it's joyful and part of what the sabbath was intended to be.

Computer programmers and writers who use the computer for work will sure be glad you said that. 8^)

Sincerely

[wagglebee]

Therefore, the Ten Commandments were only codified—written in stone as part of a formal covenant—at Mt. Sinai. Scripture clearly shows that they existed and were in force well before then.

I had never looked at this, but after reading the article, it makes complete sense.

[trisham]

I’ve never seen or heard anyone suggesting that the Ten Commandments were abolished.

**************

Me either.

[DouglasKC]

Computer programmers and writers who use the computer for work will sure be glad you said that. 8^) Sincerely

Many people have the misconception that sabbath keepers follow the work "rules" invented and kept by orthodox jews. Most of these rules and regulations are non-biblical in nature.

A computer is simply a tool. It can be used for work, or it can be used to spread the good news.

[DouglasKC]

Therefore, the Ten Commandments were only codified—written in stone as part of a formal covenant—at Mt. Sinai. Scripture clearly shows that they existed and were in force well before then.
I had never looked at this, but after reading the article, it makes complete sense.

Yes, it does and it's a fascinating study. The ten commandments fall outside of any covenant. They are actually the essence, the written definition, of what love toward God and others should manifest as.

[Logophile]

Yep. The context of when those verses were given. (Hint: It was before Christ fulfilled the law.)

Do you mean that we can disregard everything Jesus said before the Crucifixion and Resurrection?

I suppose that could be what Jesus meant. However, it seems more likely to me that he meant exactly what he said: to obtain eternal life, we must obey the commandments, give up the things of the world, take up the cross and follow him.

[pray4liberty]

And Satan is the accuser.

[wagglebee]

The ten commandments fall outside of any covenant. They are actually the essence, the written definition, of what love toward God and others should manifest as.

Amen!

[ScubieNuc]

Do you mean that we can disregard everything Jesus said before the Crucifixion and Resurrection?

Is that what I said? Nope. I said you need to read in context. Try these verses...

Gal 3:19-29 ¶ Wherefore then [serveth] the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; [and it was] ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.

Now a mediator is not [a mediator] of one, but God is one.

[Is] the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law.

But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.

But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.

Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster [to bring us] unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.

But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.

¶ For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.

For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.

And if ye [be] Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

to obtain eternal life, we must obey the commandments..

John 3:14-16 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:

That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Notice the context given in verse 14 which ushers in the new covenant in Christ. If you can obtain eternal life through the law then Christ came in vain.

Gal 2:20-21 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness [come] by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

Sincerely

[ScubieNuc]

I’ll try to get back to this later. I’ve got a lot of tools that need using right now.

Scubie

[aimhigh]

The ten commandments fall outside of any covenant.

This is incorrect. The ten commandments are referred to in both the Old and New Testament as the "tablets of the covenant", clearly in the context of the covenant with Isreal.

Jesus didn't come to destroy the law, but to fulfill it, and He did fulfill it. He also came to set us free from the law. Paul, in Romans clearly establishes that we died to the law, and uses the tenth commandment as his example.

Those who cling to the ten commandments do so in ignorance of New Testament commandments.