One Another (Christian Caucus/Devotion) [For loving mutual edification, building up, encouragement]

BIBLE, Loving FREEPERS | 4 APR 2007 | God, Knitting a Conundrum, Quix

[markomalley]

We cross-posted. Please see my response in #40, above.

[Knitting A Conundrum]

One gathers in by net or line, frequently by using an attractant...the other ambushes, usually, or stalks...For the most part fishing, you cast out, and bring in what you don’t see...hunters aim at targets they can see...

Definitely a nuance difference. One is done blindly, letting God bring the fish in. One is done by sight, using man’s ability to see...

As a metaphor, one casts out, and lets God bring the person to the net. If one was hunting, Man would be in charge...

[Knitting A Conundrum]

Posted before I saw your reply!

[Quix]

Now that you two have edified us . . . no more excuse for my tardiness . . . in trying.

First, confession and repentance are more fitting.

I repent for taking joy and comfort in slapping down another brother/sister.

I was going to say--far too often. But any is far too often. Thankfully, it's not been as much or often as some might suppose or assume from my wording and tones . . . but it has been far too significant a percentage of the time.

Oh, I know, I could rationalize a long time about slapping down satan's junk in what they were saying. And, we've all been guilty of junk in what we said--too often, even satan's junk. And it needs slapped down or at least countered in edifying ways.

But taking joy in smacking a brother for even stupid UnBiblical satanic stuff is not likely Christ's motivation nor a fruit of His Spirit. And I really prefer to have His motivation and His fruits of His Spirit.

And one can't have the fruit if one is determined to maintain a death grip on the fleshier motivations.

Will I never again be perceived to enjoy slapping some silliness on the rel forum down? Wouldn't bet on that. Will I never again exalt in, luxuriate in, viscerally enjoy such assaultive attitudes toward another FREEPER BELIEVER? I don't know that I could even confidently commit to that. But I shall earnestly try as Holy Spirit enables me to have a truly charitable, caring, empathetic, loving attitude toward all believers hereon from henceforth.

That doesn't mean that my style of debate or discourse will be totally new. I'm a work in progress but I'm also who He's made me and conditioned me to be and that's evidently not 100% evil. So there should be some familiar features still around.

And, I'm even still likely to be quite fierce toward what I perceive, construe in my spirit to be pharisaical propositions of great destructiveness to one of what I consider God's higher priorities. But I shall redouble my efforts to assault ideas and not people posting them.

What about those precious brothers who seem to absolutely deliberately beg and seemingly choose to forcefully provoke one to specifically rush out and finding a 4 X 4 timber with a rail road spike in it to whack them with?

I don't know ahead of time. But I shall persist in earnestly attempting to relate to them hereon as I'd imagine Jesus doing . . . as I'd prefer to be done unto me.

Trouble is, on that latter stance, I'd RATHER be whacked with a 4 X 4 instead of blindly go on with some satan generated pollution to my construction on reality! LOL. So doing as I'd want done unto me would not always be perceived as the most loving thing.

Anyway . . . I don't recall of any other specific need to repent toward anyone hereon. If there is such an awareness on anyone's part, PLEASE LET ME KNOW. Am happy to comply, if I can remotely see any truth to it.

############################################

Now, to:

Romans 15:7
Therefore, accept one another, just as Christ also accepted us to the glory of God.

Let us not become boastful, challenging one another, envying one another.

ACCEPT ONE ANOTHER. I confess that's often been easier than accepting myself. Those of us with REACTIVE ATTACHMENT DISORDER can all probably identify with that. And the verse is about loving others AS WE LOVE OURSELVES--evidently hard to do one without the other. Which gets back to parenting, healthy nonsexual affection etc.

But, over the years, for a diversity of reasons--not always the most pure and pristine, I have learned to accept a wide diversity of people as made in God's image. As I often said to clients--either I'd done it; someone in my family had done it; my parents' renters had done it; or my someone in my extended family had done it--or it likely had not been done.

I still remember after a sermon wherein Pastor had mentioned loving the unlovely--in Jr High--the next week to a month--riding around with mother on errands etc. . . deliberately asking God to help me feel in the skin of hobos and drunks on the street--what did it feel like to live in their skin; live their lives etc. And I kept earnestly praying that way and thinking that way until God began to do so more than I'd have ever imagined. Does a lot to change one's perspective when God answers that way.

Of course, my mother growing up 'poh whayt trash' in the South insured I never displayed an uppity attitude and remained unmangled to tell about it.

But it's a somewhat easy lesson to shove aside if pride gets a nose under the tent. Seems like a lot of my long dark nights of the soul have been engineered against that dynamic.

It HAS HELPED to pause still and pray--to ask God to help me feel what the other person is feeling and what it's like to live inside their skin and lives. Then to respond with Holy Spirit's help, as Christ might from that perspective.

And, it has helped TO FOCUS ON WHAT FRUIT OF THE SPIRIT LADEN GOAL do I want to accomplish in the exchange. Usually, pluverizing a brother with a 4 X 4 doesn't fit there.

At this point in my 60 years, when I determine to, acceptance is not that difficult. If I'm in a hurry and focused overmuch on the golden dew drops comprising MY pontifications . . . then it can get lost in the shuffle.

ACCEPT ANOTHER

AS CHRIST

HAS ACCEPTED lil ol contrary . . . me? OH DEAR!

That's a heavy calling.

Hmmm . . . How was that? How is that?

1. WITH UTTERLY EAGER OPEN ARMS--THE FATHER RUNNING TO MEET THE WAYWARD PRODIGAL. [tears typing here in the college adjunct offices]
2. WITH FIERCELY PIERCINGLY WONDEROUSLY ASSAULTINGLY LOVING EYES AND GRIN

3. SOMEWHAT like some of us [say home from years in the Middle East] would greet a 2-4 year old precious little boy or girl who's personality and temperament were so preciously loving and cute that we couldn't resist picking them up and hugging and kissing them to pieces, so to speak.

4. UTTERLY COMMITTED TO MY BETTERMENT--no holds barred; no resources spared. [more tears]

5. LOVINGLY TRUTHFUL--sometimes with great WHAM's of content and intense import. But OVERWHELMINGLY LOVINGLY NURTURING BEGINNING, MIDDLE AND END.

6. DELIGHTED TO BE IN !!!!my!!!! PRESENCE--THIS CREATOR OF ALL THAT IS. [more tears]

7. THRILLED to 'hang out;' teach; wrestle; carry on His shoulders; comfort; heal; exhort; rebuke; reveal to; just SHARE WITH; SHARE HIMSELF with. And that's a LOT. 8. HE DIED for moi. lil ol moi. [more tears]. That more than says it all.

Ahhhhhhh TO THE GLORY OF GOD. Hmmmmm. No grandstanding for the fun of it? No building ego towers and castles? hmmmmm

Actually, that's really the MOST JOYFUL THING--at this point--to BRING HIM GLORY. That's the biggest kick. Especially when I keep my focus right--ON HIM.

NOT BOASTFUL. Not an outrageously chronic or intense problem of mine but occasionally crops up. I give it up, Lord. Take every last cell, fiber, subatomic particle of every last root hair of it, please, Lord.

CHALLENGING ONE ANOTHER . . . But, but, but, but . . . NO BUTS. Being a man doesn't count, Lord? Genes for jousting don't count, Lord? FONT COLOR=PURPLE> Sow to the flesh reap of the flesh. You like that fruit?

Not really, Lord. STINKS pretty quickly. Terminal indigestion, too. And the acid reflux knocks my head off. Yeah, I guess all sin is kind of that way, isn't it. Suicidal, terminal, deadly. How easy we forget or ignore such facts.

ENVYING one another. Not a great problem. Usually not much of a problem at all. Pretty comfortable being me, at this point, especially all things considered.

But there is a perverse sort of fleshly arrogance that satan's crew fosters--too often even in believers . . . that can sure stir up my dukes. THEN I need to remember that we wrestle not against flesh and blood. Assault the enemy, not the brother or sister.

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I think one of the most memorable past experiences with the precious truths of this verse was when I was in Taipei the first time in the Navy as a radioman. My Christian roommate (an Army Bro) and I had taken a taxi to visit some Presbyterian missionary friends.

They were on the 4th floor. We had to buzz them and they'd throw their keys down to get in the front door to the stairway. Trouble is, there was an open binjo ditch next to the building. At least there were plenty of big holes in the ditch covering. Of course, the keys bounced off my hands into the binjo ditch (open sewer).

Given relative ranks in that culture, the taxi driver eagerly started fishing with his bare hands for the keys. I couldn't bear that and joined him. I forget which one of us found the keys first. But it was clear he was shocked that an Amereican serviceman would dare do such a thing.

I just knew that he was as precious in God's eyes as I was and that I wasn't about to let him do such a thing for me without me helping him. He was touched, clearly.

China has been full of such experiences, for me. Praise God. At this point, I really do not want my ego or flesh or anything else--even in this distant computing communication medium--to rob me or anyone else of ACCEPTING THEM AND LOVING THEM AS CHRIST DID AND DOES ME.

PLEASE, if you catch me doing so--feel free to refer to this or whatever else--call me up short and set me again on the correct path and stance.

LUB,

Qx

[markomalley]

As a metaphor, one casts out, and lets God bring the person to the net. If one was hunting, Man would be in charge...

*Ding* *Ding* *Ding*

Folks, we have a winner.

'tis a lesson that all of us could stand to learn from time to time.

[markomalley]

Quix,

For some reason, your post above reminded me of Bl. Charles de Foucauld.

Father,
I abandon myself into your hands;
do with me what you will.
 
Whatever you may do,
I thank you.
 
I am ready for all, I accept all.
Let only your will be done in me,
and in all your creatures.
I wish no more than this, O Lord.
 
Into your hands I commend my soul;
I offer it to you
with all the love of my heart,
for I love you, Lord,
and so need to give myself,
to surrender myself into your hands,
without reserve,
and with boundless confidence,
for you are my Father.

Bl. Charles led a very interesting life. His biography says:

CHARLES DE FOUCAULD (Brother Charles of Jesus) was born in Strasbourg, France on September 15th, 1858. Orphaned at the age of six, he and his sister Marie were raised by their grandfather in whose footsteps he followed by taking up a military career.

He lost his faith as an adolescent.His taste for easy living was well known to all and yet he showed that he could be strong willed and constant in difficult situations. He undertook a risky exploration of Morocco (1883-1884). Seeing the way Muslims expressed their faith questioned him and he began repeating, “My God, if you exist, let me come to know you.”

On his return to France, the warm, respectful welcome he received from his deeply Christian family made him continue his search. Under the guidance of Fr. Huvelin he rediscovered God in October 1886.He was then 28 years old. “As soon as I believed in God, I understood that I could not do otherwise than to live for him alone.”

A pilgrimage to the Holy Land revealed his vocation to him: to follow Jesus in his life at Nazareth.He spent 7 years as a Trappist, first in France and then at Akbès in Syria. Later he began to lead a life of prayer and adoration, alone, near a convent of Poor Clares in Nazareth.

Ordained a priest at 43 (1901) he left for the Sahara, living at first in Beni Abbès and later at Tamanrasset among the Tuaregs of the Hoggar. He wanted to be among those who were, “the furthest removed, the most abandoned.” He wanted all who drew close to him to find in him a brother, “a universal brother.” In a great respect for the culture and faith of those among whom he lived, his desire was to “shout the Gospel with his life”. “I would like to be sufficiently good that people would say, “If such is the servant, what must the Master be like?”

On the evening of December 1st 1916, he was killed by a band of marauders who had encircled his house.

He had always dreamed of sharing his vocation with others: after having written several rules for religious life, he came to the conclusion that this “life of Nazareth” could be led by all. Today the “spiritual family of Charles de Foucauld” encompasses several associations of the faithful, religious communities and secular institutes for both lay people and priests.

For more information, you can visit his website.

[Quix]

INDEED.

THX.

[Knitting A Conundrum]

This is why my constant meditation is on the passion.

It reminds me that it is not ME who has earned anything worth having.

It reminds me that what God has wrought was bought with a price.

It reminds me that, though I am not worthy in my own right, I am called anyway, invited, and welcomed, warts and all.

None of us are perfect. We are all short of God’s glory. But he calls us in spite of ourselves.

Our response should be grief at the need for it, humble joy at the calling, and grateful love at the reality of what God has wrought.

Before receiving communion, we, in my confession pray: Lord, I am not worthy.

Of course we’re not worthy.

But only say the word and I shall be healed [or more properly, and my soul shall be healed - we have a less than accurate translation in English]

It is He who calls and heals us. A total gift.

[Quix]

BEAUTIFUL. [brought yet more tears! LOL]

Thanks tons.

Precious. I’m sure he was easy to love—so full of HIS Love.

Thanks.

[Quix]

It reminds me that it is not ME who has earned anything worth having.

It reminds me that what God has wrought was bought with a price.

It reminds me that, though I am not worthy in my own right, I am called anyway, invited, and welcomed, warts and all.

None of us are perfect. We are all short of God’s glory. But he calls us in spite of ourselves.

Our response should be grief at the need for it, humble joy at the calling, and grateful love at the reality of what God has wrought.

Before receiving communion, we, in my confession pray: Lord, I am not worthy.

Of course we’re not worthy.

But only say the word and I shall be healed [or more properly, and my soul shall be healed - we have a less than accurate translation in English]

It is He who calls and heals us. A total gift.

%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%

WONDEROUSLY BEAUTIFUL AND ANOINTED WORDS! [Lord, I have to stop these tears, I teach in 15 minutes! LOL. Ahhh well, wouldn’t be the first time students had seen my tears. LOL.]

THANKS TONS KAC

[trisham]

Yes, I am. :) I most heartily agree that it was part of God’s plan. Well said.

[trisham]

That was lovely, markomalley. Quix, I will try to do as you have pledged. Please don’t hit me with a 2x4 if I fail. A kind admonition could work wonders. :)

[Oliver Optic]

"Therefore accept one another ..."

Greetings, all ... great thread. Sorry for the long post, but this is something the Lord has been working hard on me about for several years.

It only the unprecedented prosperity and liberty of the American church that gives us the luxury of rejecting one another over non-fundamental differences.

If persecution comes, some of those differences are going to seem awfully trivial.

I sometimes think of it like this:

Persecution has arrived in America. You and your family are on the run from the authorities ... with imprisonment and perhaps worse awaiting you.

It is a bitter cold, winter night ... you are driving along, wondering what to do and where to go. The children are cold, hungry, and tired. As the snowfall thickens, you realize that you cannot spend the night on the road.

Up ahead, you see a friendly-looking farmhouse with smoke coming out of the chimney. You decide to chance it. You stop the car, breathe a fervent prayer, walk up to the door, and knock.

The door opens part way, and a suspicious face peers out. You explain, "I'm sorry to disturb you, sir, but I need help. My wife and children are in the car. We're Christians, and we're in trouble, and we ... well, we need a place to stay for the night."

All of a sudden the man's face breaks into a wide smile as he swings the door open. "We're Christians, too. In fact, we're having a church meeting down in the basement right now. Please, come in ... and welcome in the name of the Lord Jesus!"

You return to the car with joyful heart. "It's okay ... they're Christians, too!"

Your new friend leads you and your family into the house and down the stairs into the basement. Kind hands take the children and snuggle them in warm blankets, while others greet you with a hug and a warm cup of coffee. Someone hands you a songbook, and you begin to join in the worship.

As you are sitting there, you look over and observe that the brother next to you is using a different Bible translation than the one you like ... or you notice that the musical style of the worship is different than you are used to ... or you discover that these people are Arminians and you're a Calvinist ... or they're charismatic and you're Baptist ... or they're amillennial and you're premillennial ... or they practice infant baptism and you're convinced of believers' baptism.

The question is, how much will it matter then? Will you turn to your wife and say, "Gather the children, dear, and let's get out of here"? Not likely. You may still disagree with these dear brothers and sisters, but the disagreements will tend to find their proper perspective.

It's an imaginary scenario, of course. But it poses a very real challenge. Because I'm convinced that how much those differences would matter then is how much they ought to matter now.

That is by no means to say that scriptural truth does not matter or that some differences are not important. But the issues that divide us must be kept in perspective ... and weighed against the great commands of the New Testament to love, accept, and care for one another.

I believe it was Paul Billheimer who said ... if love is the greatest commandment, then failure to love is the greatest compromise.

[Knitting A Conundrum]

Beautiful.

[Quix]

Thanks tons.

Certainly! No sweat.

You are easy to love.

[Quix]

I believe it was Paul Billheimer who said ... if love is the greatest commandment, then failure to love is the greatest compromise.

= = =

INDEED

Wasn’t he the author of the wonderful book:

LOVE COVERS?

Well worth anyone’s time. Crucial truths and principles for the church now and certainly in the coming months and years.

Bless you and yours tons for sharing your narrative. Quite prophetically accurate, I think.

I know.

[Running On Empty]

I am indebted to you for this post. You have no idea how it came to me at a time when I most needed it.

I am passing it on to two prople who I love very much—each one in his own way will understand this analogy, each one to his own benefit.

It’s like shedding a very great burden to begin reading things like this on the FR Religion Forum, replacing the tone that had come about and which I am relieved is—at leasy for this moment in time—being set aside for the true meaning of grace and redemption. That grace and redemption is that God loves us and that we are to be the ambassadors of His love to others. We can’t do that effectively with rancour and bitter disputes.

Mark, you have made my day.

[Running On Empty]

And another thanks. I have known of this wonderful man, Bl.Charles deFoucauld, in the time of my old age, and his prayer, which you posted, is a bookmark in my Prayers of the Divine Office.

I am so glad he is now Blessed.

[Running On Empty]

Once again I have to say: spellcheck is my friend. :-)

[markomalley]

It’s like shedding a very great burden to begin reading things like this on the FR Religion Forum, replacing the tone that had come about and which I am relieved is—at leasy for this moment in time—being set aside for the true meaning of grace and redemption. That grace and redemption is that God loves us and that we are to be the ambassadors of His love to others. We can’t do that effectively with rancour and bitter disputes.

Bears repeating.

Perhaps this is an outgrowth the graces of this year's Holy Week. The Holy Father, in his Message for Lent, 2007, said the following:

In the Lenten journey, memorial of our Baptism, we are exhorted to come out of ourselves in order to open ourselves in trustful abandonment to the merciful embrace of the Father (cf. St John Chrysostom, Catecheses, 3, 14ff.). Blood, symbol of the love of the Good Shepherd, flows into us especially in the Eucharistic mystery: "The Eucharist draws us into Jesus' act of self-oblation... we enter into the very dynamic of his self-giving" (Encyclical Deus caritas est, n. 13). Let us live Lent, then, as a "Eucharistic" time in which, welcoming the love of Jesus, we learn to spread it around us with every word and deed. Contemplating "him whom they have pierced" moves us in this way to open our hearts to others, recognizing the wounds inflicted upon the dignity of the human person; it moves us in particular to fight every form of contempt for life and human exploitation and to alleviate the tragedies of loneliness and abandonment of so many people. May Lent be for every Christian a renewed experience of God's love given to us in Christ, a love that each day we, in turn, must "re-give" to our neighbour, especially to the one who suffers most and is in need. Only in this way will we be able to participate fully in the joy of Easter.

The FReeper to really thank for this thread (and thus that post to which you refer) is BTL. 'Twas BTL who provided the gentle nudge that hopefully will result in the establishment of a "Christian Caucus."