More Evidence Pius XII Was Not Hitler's Pope - German Files Point to a Russian Plot

Zenit News Agency ^ | April 2, 2007

[Titanites]

Well, there it is, the welfare clause. That must be what irritates the accusers.

And keep in mind that this was in 1933.

[Titanites]

One other thing to keep in mind is that this concordat was signed shortly after Protestant churches had reached their own agreements with the Nazi government.

[Running On Empty]

Thanks for these latest posts of yours. They are very helpful.

[Uncle Chip]

At the end of his pontificate, an encyclical with the name Humani Generis Unitas was prepared on his orders; it contained an open condemnation of anti-semitism and all racism. The encyclical was ready in september 1938, but never published, as Eugenio Cardinal Pacelli, cardinal secretary of state of the Holy See, judged that it might provoke anti-Catholic retaliation, especially in Nazi Germany, and that an open attack on racial policy and internal affairs of Germany and Fascist Italy would make the Holy See's claim to impartiality ludicrous and incredible.

This would be an interesting encyclical to take a look at. Do you know where a text of this encyclical can be found?

Interesting that Eugenio Pacelli talked Pius XI out of publishing this encyclical, and yet four months later Pius XI had a change of mind, and against Pacelli's advice, was going to deliver a public address anyway against the Nazis and their racial policies, putting in danger the 1933 Concordat. But he never lived long enough to do so.

What ever happened to that encyclical and the text of that address? Did Pius XII ever realize that the 1933 Concordat had been a mistake as his predecessor apparently did?

[spunkets]

"Did Pius XII ever realize that the 1933 Concordat had been a mistake as his predecessor apparently did?"

Can you point out the offensive parts on the Concordat? What exactly is the problem with it?

[Uncle Chip]

Can you point out the offensive parts on the Concordat? What exactly is the problem with it?

Why don't you ask Pius XI that question when you see him? or perhaps a copy of the encyclical and address that he never delivered would answer that question for you.

[spunkets]

"Why don't you ask Pius XI that question when you see him? or perhaps a copy of the encyclical and address that he never delivered would answer that question for you."

Those folks are irrelevant. Answer the question. You're the one making the complaint.

[OLD REGGIE]

For a slightly different, contemporary, perspective on the reasons for the 1933 Concordat let's look at a Time Magazine article.

Time Magazine - When it was a real magazine. :-)

IMO neither the German Protestant Church nor the German Catholic Church has absoloutely clean hands in the handling of the "Jewish Problem".

[spunkets]

"For a slightly different, contemporary, perspective on the reasons for the 1933 Concordat let's look at a Time Magazine article."

Titanites posted the concordat in #178. In order for it to be a problem, it must be shown that the document caused harm. What exactly is the problem with the concordat? Unless you can show what the problem with the concordat is, then there is zero justification for nit picking over invented reasons for it.

[OLD REGGIE]

Can you point out the offensive parts on the Concordat? What exactly is the problem with it?

It could be argued that the Concordat was instrumental in eliminating the Catholic Centrist Party, the last remaining powerful political opposition to the Nazi Party.

[spunkets]

"It could be argued that the Concordat was instrumental in eliminating the Catholic Centrist Party, the last remaining powerful political opposition to the Nazi Party."

The Church is not a political party, and political parties are not Church orgs.

[spunkets]

Furthermore, the document itself does not forbid any Catholic from considering the teaching and sentiment of the Catholic Church in any political decision.

[Uncle Chip]

The Church is not a political party, and political parties are not Church orgs.

And yet the Vatican with one swipe of the pen put a political party out of business.

[OLD REGGIE]

The Church is not a political party, and political parties are not Church orgs.

Churches do not have Diplomats (Nuncio's). Political parties do.

The Catholic Centrist Party was a powerful and influential political party. Get real.

[spunkets]

"The Vatican with one swipe of the pen put a political party out of business."

They did? Show exactly in the document where that was ordered. Show where Catholics were forbiden from following Catholic teaching and ordered to follow NAZI teaching and direction regarding their political thinking.

[AnAmericanMother]

Here's the problem I see with that attitude:

There are people who have a pet conspiracy theory - they WANT Pius XII to be GUILTY. This is like the "negative pregnant" - it will not be possible under any circumstances to produce sufficient proof for those who cling to their pet theory. If evidence is produced, they will claim that it is forged -- or that the incriminating evidence has somehow been concealed.

Read the title of this thread!

If any other conservative leader had been smeared by an ugly rumor, and later documents were unearthed in STASI archives that the rumor had been created and fomented and paid for by the Soviets, everyone on FR would say, "Oh! So THAT explains it!" and consider the matter closed.

That's what happened with the Rosenbergs when the Venona files were opened. Their guilt was shown beyond any reasonable doubt.

But here, it's as though the Rosenberg supporters retain their unreasonable doubt. They are shouting "But I KNOW the Rosenbergs were innocent! These are forged documents! The fascists have destroyed the information that proved the Rosenbergs were innocent!"

Except it's the other way round, all the evidence found so far (including evidence in STASI files completely unknown when this controversy began) points to Pius XII's innocence and indeed his heroic efforts . . . while the conspiracy theorists are hoping they can still smear a good and brave man.

[spunkets]

" Churches do not have Diplomats (Nuncio's). Political parties do.

Political parties do not have diplomats, countries do. The Vatican is a State. The Catholic Church is a Church.

[AnAmericanMother]

You are completely wrong. Nuncios are permanent representatives of the Pope . . . not of any political party. (You could have looked it up and saved yourself the egg.)

Also, the CCP was Catholic in name only, and had already given its votes to Hitler at the time the Enabling Legislation was passed, well before the Concordat was signed. The Concordat had absolutely nothing to do with the surrender of the CCP to Hitler.

[spunkets]

"the CCP was Catholic in name only, and had already given its votes to Hitler at the time the Enabling Legislation was passed, well before the Concordat was signed."

Amazing! I didn't know that, but was a feelin' it in muh bones.