More Evidence Pius XII Was Not Hitler's Pope - German Files Point to a Russian Plot

Zenit News Agency ^ | April 2, 2007

[Petronski]

And yet they thought that they were doing the Vatican a favor in exterminating the Jews and Serbs.

And they were wrong. You'd take the word of the damn Nazi (as well as Tito) over the Vatican. Good luck with that.

[Uncle Chip]

When Angelo Roncalli (later Pope John XXIII; during the war, Papal nuncio in Istanbul) was complimented for saving thousands of Jews by issuing them false baptismal certificates, he said "Everything I have done, I have done in obedience to the Pope."

Was this the same Pope John XXIII who gave that wonderful benediction in 1959 for Ante Pavelich, the Croatian butcher of the Serbs, who had been able to escape justice through those Vatican ratlines into South America?

[Petronski]

Your response is just so typical.

[AnAmericanMother]

Well, he certainly hasn't publicized the retraction, or I would have heard about it.

One of the things that drew me to the Catholic Church was all the controversy over Cornwell's book.

It was plain to me as a history graduate and attorney that the attacks on the Church were based in little if any fact, and that the hue and cry was all out of proportion to the truth of the matter.

Therefore, the folks who were attacking the Church with such hysterical persistence must have some other motive. Fear? Hatred? Desire to destroy? And why? What do they fear?

Investigating those questions led me straight to the Church.

[ArrogantBustard]

I note, for the record, that there is ongoing secular debate as to whether the holocaust even occurred ... there was recently a week-long conference on the topic, sponsored by a national government and attended by (ummm ...) "intellectuals" from around the world.

Are we going to welcome all those who hold diverse opinions on this important topic?

(I do not have sufficient skill as a "Devil's Advocate" to put the matter to the test.)

(And yes, I'm equating those who accuse the Catholic Church of complicity in the Holocaust with Holocaust deniers.)

[Pyro7480]

Was this the same Pope John XXIII who gave that wonderful benediction in 1959 for Ante Pavelich, the Croatian butcher of the Serbs, who had been able to escape justice through those Vatican ratlines into South America?

What's your source for that "whopper"?

[Religion Moderator]

Iran is a theocracy.

[trisham]

bookmark

[Titanites]

Well, he certainly hasn't publicized the retraction, or I would have heard about it.

I haven't seen it myself, either. But among others I've read, Jimmy Akins has a little blurb about it here: Hitler's Pope's Author Gets A Clue. Scroll down to December 19, 2004.

[Campion]

Whether he did or didn’t, it has nothing to do with whether he saved Jews in Istanbul at Pius XII’s request, does it?

[Revenge of Sith]

When Goering was in prison after the war, the Lutheran chaplain denied him communion because Goering espoused pagan beliefs.

[ArrogantBustard]

It gathered 67 writers and researchers from 30 countries, most of whom argue that either the Holocaust did not happen or that it was vastly exaggerated.

That's from the second FR thread I linked. Those 30 countries are not all theocracies. Most of the Holocaust Deniers I've bumped into over the years have been socialists and racists, and not particularly religious at all. Holocaust denial obviously has a religious component, but it's primarily a matter of secular "debate".

[Religion Moderator]

Point taken. Atheists and agnostics use a broad brush to tar all beliefs and therefore cannot be considered unbiased either.

[AnAmericanMother]

Point taken . . . but how about Willis Carto and the Institute for Historical Review? They put on a regular Holocaust Denial Conference in Washington D.C.

Can we expect you to support postings of "reasoned debate" from these holocaust deniers who, after all, are not living in a theocracy?

[AnAmericanMother]

In that case, we've established that everybody is biased.

Which begs the question -- will you, or will you not, allow postings from holocaust deniers? And what's the difference between allowing obviously false and disproved slander from holocaust deniers, and allowing obviously false and disproved slander against Pope Pius?

[Campion]

Yeah, that's why I said he was (at best) a nominal Lutheran.

Was he also denied a Lutheran burial because of his suicide?

[Religion Moderator]

We don't allow holocaust denial posts at all - or any other form of anti-Semitism or other racism or hate mongering.

My attempt to find a path to peace on this subject, to find at least a minimum set of facts which can be accepted without dispute, has fallen flat because as ArrogantBustard has shown - atheists and agnostics (the dominate force of the secular arguments) - are themselves biased.

So the dispute over Pius XII will continue - and I will limit my attempts to blocking sidebars which "make it personal."

[Petronski]

And what's the difference between allowing obviously false and disproved slander from holocaust deniers, and allowing obviously false and disproved slander against Pope Pius?

Simple.

The one that harms the Catholic Church is permitted.

[Petronski]

Can we expect you to support postings of "reasoned debate" from these holocaust deniers who, after all, are not living in a theocracy?

Pssst. If those postings harm the reputation of the Catholic Church, the light is green.

[AnAmericanMother]

But it's not a dispute . . . it's hate mongering (which you say you forbid) by means of repeating the words of disproved anti-Catholics (one of whom, Cornwell, has now retracted his accusations).

I have not yet seen a serious scholarly work accusing Pius XII of leaving the Jews to their fate in WWII. In fact, reputable historians (including several faithful Jews who set out to examine the facts) agree that he saved more people than any other person or organization (including Oskar Schindler and the Red Cross).

You are allowing people to repeat the same slanders from Hochhuth, Cornwell, and Chick just recirculating over and over through Emails and the blogs. It really is a kissin' cousin of holocaust denial . . . shifting the blame from the Nazis to an innocent man.