Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

Roswell Incident & Bible Prophesies Merge in Novel
The National Ledger ^ | Feb 12, 2007 | Steve Hammons

Posted on 02/26/2007 1:28:30 PM PST by Alex Murphy

click here to read article


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-20 ... 61-8081-100101-120121-126 next last
To: Quix
Evidently quite behind the curve on awareness but what the heck.

I won't attempt to retaliate for this one. I deserve it because of the "pounce". :-)

81 posted on 02/27/2007 11:00:47 AM PST by Invincibly Ignorant
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 65 | View Replies]

To: SpringheelJack
from:

HERE: http://www.v-j-enterprises.com/sf-government-lies2.html

Government UFO Lies Page 2

Weaver LIED again when he supposedly quoted from a July 8, 1947, FBI memo, about the wreckage “The object found resembles a high altitude weather balloon with a radar reflector … disc and balloon being transported.” The rest of the sentence after “reflector,” intentionally left out by Weaver since, despite the size of the report, he doesn’t include the memo itself, was: “but that telephonic conversation between their office and Wright Field had not borne out this belief.” This reverses Weaver’s false statement.

Weaver also LIED when he stated in his Volume that it would be the last official word on Roswell. As a matter of fact on June 24, 1997, his assistant on his volume, Captain James McAndrew, issued Volume 2 The Roswell Report: Case Closed. McAndrew LIED in claiming that the small alien bodies which Roswell witnesses had supposedly seen were, thanks to his “in-depth research,” crash test dummies dropped by the USAF all over New Mexico. He includes a map “Anthropomorphic Dummy Launch and Landing Locations” three times. The map does show the debris field and the Plains of San Agustin crash sites and a host of dummy-drop locations, none of which were near either crash site. Furthermore, Corona isn’t even on the map. A picture in the report shows officer Raymond A. Madson with Sierra Sam, one of the infamous crash test dummies. I managed to locate Madson, who had been in charge of the program. He noted two important facts that rule out the crash test dummies: The dummies had to be six feet tall and weigh 175 pounds for the tests to be meaningful (witnesses all described small skinny guys with big heads and big eyes).

No dummies were dropped prior to 1953.

When the announcement had been made at a press conference about the dummies in 1997, the official said — when it was noted that the crash happened in 1947, not 1953 — that peoples’ memories were fallible! This is one of the more bizarre LIES around. Perhaps the USAF had invented time travel for crash test dummies? Another lie was that pilot Joseph Kittinger was responsible for the stories I had heard about a nasty red-haired officer at the Roswell base hospital. He was there in 1959!

McAndrew also LIED when he stated that Don Berliner and I had bad-mouthed balloon experts Duke Gildenberg and Charles Moore when we interviewed them separately in Socorro during a research trip. That is a bald faced LIE. Don and I did agree after the meetings that neither seemed to know anything about Roswell other than what was in the July 9 Roswell Daily Record article. We were courteous and friendly to both of them.

Weaver also LIED when he stated in a letter to researcher Nick Redfern, then living in England, on April 11, 1994, “I can state that the Air Force considers the ‘MJ-12’ (both the group and the purported documents) to be bogus.” In reply to FOIA requests from both Nick and myself for any memos, letters, documents, etc. on which this conclusion was based “We have nothing in response to your request.” I appealed this and was told again they have nothing. So there was a grandiose claim (LIE) backed by nothing. Unfortunately, the FBI accepted the LIE and even reprinted on their website the identical set of Weaver MJ-12 documents with the hand printed BOGUS on each page.

Weaver, who seemed to be quite willing to LIE at any opportunity, was not the only one who LIED about the MJ-12 Documents. Probably more innocently, the National Archives issued a letter on May 9, 1988, stating: “The Acting Director of the FOI Office at the National Security Council informed us that TOP SECRET RESTRICTED is a marking that did not come into use at the NSC until the Nixon (1969-1974) administration. The Eisenhower Presidential Library also confirms that this particular marking was not used during the Eisenhower Administration.” Both statements are false. TSR is used on the Cutler-Twining memo. Here is a quote from the large volume published by the General Accounting Office reviewing all their efforts to find Roswell related documents for NM Congressman Steven Schiff: “December 7, 1994 … reviewed records pertaining to the air Force’s atomic energy and certain mission and weapons requirements. These files are classified up to and including TOP SECRET … period covered by these records was from 1948-1956. There was no mention of the Roswell Incident … [I]n several instances we noted the classification Top Secret Restricted used on several documents. This is mentioned because in the past references to this classification (Majestic 12) we were told that it was not used during this period.”

The Eisenhower Presidential Library had also LIED (again innocently) when they had claimed that all onionskin carbon copies of Robert Cutler’s memos were done on onionskin with an Eagle Watermark. This statement was changed after I had pointed out to an archivist a number of carbons done on other onion skin paper. The Cutler-Twining memo of July 14, 1954 was done on Dictation Onionskin, manufactured only in bid lots between the early 1950s and the early 1970s. I have discussed the MJ-12 research in Refs. 3 and 4.

BLUE BOOK LIES

Much less innocent was the LIE told by Secretary of the US Air Force, Donald Quarles, on October 25, 1955, as quoted in an official press release about a large study concerning UFOs. “On the basis of this study, we believe that no objects such as those popularly described as flying saucers have overflown the United States. I feel certain that even the Unknown 3% could have been explained as conventional phenomena or illusions if more complete observational data had been obtained.” That the two supposedly factual statements (3% Unknowns, incomplete observation data), are bald faced LIES is easily demonstrated by this table where the data are compiled from “the study” whose title was NOT given in the press release (“Project Blue Book Special Report No. 14,” Ref. 5) and which was not distributed, though the press release got very wide coverage.

[The tables are not posting well as an image so--please GO TO HIS WEBSITE FOR THE TABLES. My html coding for tables is too weak and I'm not willing to look it up or bother today]

Note that the UNKNOWNS, rather than making up 3% of the 3201 sightings investigated, comprised 21.5% and that there was a completely separate category “INSUFFICIENT INFORMATION.” The definitions are as follows:

UNKNOWN — This designation in the identification code was assigned to those reports of sightings wherein the description of the object and its maneuvers could not be fitted to the pattern of any known object or phenomenon.

INSUFFICIENT INFORMATION — The identification category was assigned to a report when upon final consideration there was some essential item of information missing . It is emphasized that this category was not used as a convenient way to dispose of what might be called poor unknowns.”

Here is the quality distribution of the same 3201 sightings. Note especially that the better the quality of the sighting the MORE likely to be listed as an UNKNOWN. A statistical comparison between UNKNOWNS and KNOWNS showed that the probability that the UNKNOWNS were just missed KNOWNS was less than 1%.

[The tables are not posting well as an image so--please GO TO HIS WEBSITE FOR THE TABLES. My html coding for tables is too weak and I'm not willing to look it up or bother today]

It should further be noted that the press release not only didn’t mention the title (surely some reporter would have asked what happened to the other thirteen reports) but did not mention who did the work, namely Battelle Memorial Institute (a very highly respected Research and Development Organization) in Columbus, Ohio. Apparently the press never asked about either the title or the organization. Amazingly, the three-page summary that was released with the press release gave none of the information in the more than 240 charts, tables, graphs and maps that are in the report. Here was a Cosmic Watergate totally ignored by the media.

Another typical Government UFO LIE was uttered by Dr. Donald Menzel, a professor of Astronomy at Harvard. However, I had discovered in his papers at the Harvard Archives after receiving the required permission from three different people to view them, that he had a TOP SECRET Ultra clearance with the CIA and a very long history of work for the National Security Agency, the CIA, and many other companies. He said in Physics Today “All the non-explained sightings are from poor observers.” Menzel was earning his pay as a member of Majestic 12.

I should also point out that subsequent annual USAF Project Blue Book Press releases consistently LIED by using a sneaky tactic of not including those cases still under investigation at the end of the year in their annual tabulation and by suddenly deciding that any one-witness UNKNOWN would have to be dumped in the Insufficient Information category, no matter how competent the witness. Obviously sightings that are still under investigation at the end of the year are more likely to be Unexplainable than those quickly identified. Testimony from one witness has been used to provide the death penalty for a convicted murderer. When the numbers are put back in the tabulations, again the percentage of UNKNOWNS was around 20%. Anybody searching for a cancer cure would be delighted if 20% of the drugs being tested actually did much more good than harm. Anybody with cancer would probably be satisfied if one drug worked.

Note especially General Bolender’s comment above about sightings which could effect National Security, not being a part of the Blue Book system.

MORE AIR FORCE UFO LIES

Here are three claims from an August 25, 1993 letter from USAF Lt. Colonel Thomas W. Shubert, Congressional Inquiry Division, Office of Legislative Liaison, to Senator Patty Murray (of Washington State) who had asked about UFOs and Roswell for a constituent. The entire letter and my five-page rebuttal are in TOP SECRET MAJIC (Ref. 6). The same language (and misleading LIES) has been used since 1969.

LIE 1. “No UFO reported, investigated and evaluated by the Air Force has ever given any indication of threat to our national security.”

Again note Bolender’s claims about sightings which could effect national security. Furthermore note that if any of the three noted functions was performed by somebody else  CIA, DIA, NSA, NRO, MAJESTIC 12, etc., THE STATEMENT WOULD BE TRUE AND TOTALLY MEANINGLESS. Some recently obtained newspaper clippings from 1952 also clearly indicate that UFOs were considered a threat to national security. Frank Feschino Jr. (author of The Braxton County Monster: Coverup of the Flatwoods Monster Revealed for which I wrote the foreword and epilog — Ref. 7, 2004) and I had been searching through volumes of old sources such as The UFO Evidence, books by Donald Keyhoe and H. Wilkins, the Blue Book unknowns, and clipping collections of such outstanding researchers as Dr. David Rudiak and Barry Greenwood. We turned up such headlines as “Air Force Orders Jet Pilots to Shoot Down Flying Saucers if They Refuse to Land.” Lt. Col Moncel Monte, an Air Force Information officer, is quoted: “The jet pilots are and have been under orders to investigate unidentified objects and to shoot them down if they can’t talk them down,” [Seattle Post Intelligencer, July 29, 1952 page 1]. Here is another: “Jets told to Shoot Down Flying Discs,” [Fall River, Massachusetts, Herald News, July 29, 1952] . “Jet pilots are operating under 24 hour alert to challenge the mysterious objects and to ‘shoot them down’ if they ignore orders to land.” I was particularly interested in a clipping from the Louisville Courier, July 30, 1952, in which Major General Roger Ramey (same man connected with Roswell), now Deputy Chief of Staff of the Air Force Staff for operations, “told the news conference that interceptor planes have raced aloft several hundred times as a result of reported sightings of unidentified objects. He said that was just standard procedure.”

Normally aircraft don’t get scrambled to chase and shoot down unknowns in the sky unless the unknowns are considered a threat to our national security. Some people had doubted that there were dogfights between UFOs and our interceptors as Frank had suggested in the book. We found many examples of just that. I have over the years heard six accounts of more fighter planes going after a UFO than coming back from the chase. I believe we will find many more such accounts especially after noting how many military aircraft “accidents” there were in the 1951-1954 time frame and how many aircraft either crashed or disappeared on “routine training” missions. Some of the pilots had flown more than a hundred combat missions in Korea or during WW 2. It might be useful to point out that, while the penguins in Antarctica are definitely not a threat to the security of the United States, they are certainly real.

2. Colonel Shubert’s second claim, another LIE, was “There has been no evidence submitted to, or discovered by the Air Force that sightings categorized as “UNIDENTIFIED” represent technological developments or principles beyond the range of present day scientific knowledge.” In other words, we can imagine all sorts of technology such as the ability to use a silent round magnetoaerodynamic device to make right angle turns, move at very high speed horizontally and to hover. We just haven’t done it yet. And what if the evidence was submitted to Majestic 12 or the CIA, DIA, NRO, NSA instead of the Air Force? Furthermore, the use of fusion rockets for deep space travel is not beyond the range of present scientific knowledge. I worked on fusion rockets at Aerojet General Nucleonics in the early 1960s. To the best of my knowledge, we haven’t built any full size systems yet. We have operated a number of nuclear fission rockets on the ground similar, for example, to the NRX A-6 nuclear rocket engine built by Westinghouse Astronuclear Lab in 1968 and on which I worked. I don’t think we have operated any in space. Of course this also ignores the very special characteristics of the wreckage found at the Roswell crash site … extraordinarily light weight and strong metal, foil that could be folded over many times and would open on its own and could not be torn….

3. Colonel Shubert’s third LIE to Senator Murray: “There has been no evidence indicating that sightings categorized as unidentified are extraterrestrial vehicles.” Really? So manufactured objects flying under intelligent control performing extraordinary maneuvers as observed all over the world both in the air and, as noted by researcher Ted Phillips, on the ground (more than 3000 Physical Trace cases in 90 countries) are not of ET origin? What if they are categorized as Interstellar Alien Craft? What can be said about the wreckage and bodies recovered in New Mexico in July, 1947 as described in Crash at Corona (Ref.8 )? Could we Earthlings in 1947 really make wreckage with the unusual characteristics described by rancher Brazel and the intelligence officer for the only atomic bombing group in the world?

Another false statement from Colonel Shubert to Senator Murray (I would call it either a LIE or an admission of total ignorance): “We are not aware that any other government department or agency other than the National Archives possesses any records pertaining to UFOs.” I guess he is claiming that no navy sailors or marines or army, navy, marine pilots have seen or chased UFOs and that the NSA, CIA, FBI, etc, etc, have no UFO files. I guess ignorance is bliss. John Greenewald’s “Black Vault” web site contains many thousands of documents from agencies other than the USAF such as the FBI, CIA, NSA, DIA, Department of State etc….

PAGE 3:

FROM:

HERE: http://www.v-j-enterprises.com/sf-government-lies3.html

FBI LIES

Here is a statement (February 22, 1972) from J. Edgar Hoover, the longtime head of the FBI: “The investigation of UFOs is not and never has been a matter within the investigative jurisdiction of the FBI.” As noted in my movie UFOS ARE Real and in the book UFO-FBI Connection (Ref. 9) by Dr. Bruce Maccabee, Hoover was able to obtain more than 1600 pages of FBI files about UFOs back in the late 1970s. Nick Redfern in his book The F.B.I. Files: The FBI’s UFO TOP SECRETS EXPOSED (Ref.10.) also notes FBI involvement in detail. Even Colonel Weaver quoted from an FBI memo about Roswell though in a grossly misleading fashion. How about the CIA? Is Colonel Shubert really unaware that a suit brought against the CIA by Citizens Against UFO Secrecy (back in the 1970s) brought forth 900 pages of UFO material (after LIES that they had nothing) and a list of 57 documents from several other agencies including the State Department and the Defense Intelligence Agency? Eighteen of the documents listed were from the National Security Agency, which after considerable prodding from the courts as described above “released” 160 of its own UFO documents. They were almost entirely whited out.

There is also a funny story about the FBI and UFOs. I had written back in 1988 to both the CIA and FBI, under Freedom of Information and the Privacy Act, for any and all files they had on me. I provided my full name, Stanton Terry Friedman, date and place of birth, the fact that I had a Q security clearance from 1956 until 1970, etc. I know from talking to friends that had been interrogated by the FBI for my initial clearance and renewals five and ten years later, that the FBI had conducted the investigations. However, the FBI wrote saying they had no file on me. A LIE. Then the CIA responded that all they had on me was a negative name check request from the FBI and gave the file number. I sent a copy of the small CIA response to the FBI and asked that they recheck their files. They responded that indeed they did have a file, but it was classified. I asked how big the file was and at what level it was classified (I doubt if it was TOP SECRET RESTRICTED like the Cutler-Twining memo). They responded saying that both the size and level of classification of my file were classified. Eventually Larry Bryant, with my permission, was able to get a small portion of my file. The passport records were noted. At one point it appears as though they thought Stanton was Terry’s brother! It is hard to believe that they are totally incompetent … just arrogant in thinking they can get away with LYING.

CIA UFO LIES

The CIA, not surprisingly, has also LIED. When they were first approached by CAUS for UFO documents, they claimed their only involvement with UFOs had been in the Robertson Panel of 1953 and that they had no other UFO documents. Their 900 pages of released UFO documents (none of it classified higher than secret) proved that was a LIE. When the NSA finally did a court-ordered search, not only did they find their own 160 old UFO documents, but they also found 23 more from the CIA, which somehow hadn’t found them in its court-ordered search. In other words the CIA LIED to a federal court judge. It took me two years to get nine of those (they're supposed to provide FOIA responses in ten working days). They were unclassified English translations of Eastern European newspaper articles about UFOs. It took another three years in response to my appeal to get four more very heavily censored CIA TOP SECRET Code word UFO documents. On two, one could read only eight words that weren’t blacked out. One said “DENY in TOTO!” I am convinced that the CIA also LIED when they claimed they had nothing in response to an FOIA request from me for any information related to four national security briefings provided to President Elect Dwight Eisenhower by DCI Walter B. Smith between November 4, 1952, and January 9, 1953. I had given the CIA dates and times of two of the briefings and a copy of the letter from Smith to President Truman describing that he had kept Ike abreast of national security matters. The CIA in response to my appeal said they still had nothing. It is impossible for me to believe there was no record of four such high level briefings which we know took place according to a letter found at the Truman Library. They LIED.

There were also a number of LIES in a paper by CIA Historian Gerald Haines in 1997, “CIA’s Role in the Study of UFOs.” For example, it was stated that the U-2 and Oxcart (Spy Plane) projects were responsible for over half of the UFO sightings from the late 1950s and 1960s. Dr. Bruce Maccabee has checked the statistics and there was no increase when they started flying. Surely these high altitude aircraft were never observed to appear to be round, able to hover, to move straight up and down, to make right angle turns all without noise or visible external engines or wings or to land and take off vertically as so many UFOs can. Haines said the first wave of UFO sightings was in 1947. Sweden had a huge wave in 1946. Haines says there are no original MJ-12 documents. He LIED. The Cutler Twining memo is at the National Archives. It is stated that 57 UFO documents were withheld because of national security and sources and methods. LIE. They were withheld because they originated from other agencies. Haines states “most scientists dismissed flying saucers as a quaint part of the 1950s and 1960s….” He provides no data. Polls taken for more than 30 years have shown that the greater the education the MORE likely to accept UFO reality. Two polls of engineers and scientists involved in research and development activities showed that more than 60% of those who expressed an opinion said they were likely real.

The NAVY has LIED in claiming they have no information on UFOs, even after I sent a formerly TOP SECRET UFO report by the Navy and the Air Force. They found it interesting, but they still had nothing!

An interesting LIE illustrates the need for cover up of TOP SECRET data in documents having a lower classification. USAAF General Nathan F. Twining was commanding officer of the Air Materiel Command in July, 1947. According to his flight log, which I found in his papers at the Library of Congress Manuscript Division, as confirmed by the flight log of his pilot, which I was allowed to copy, he spent the week of July 7-11, 1947 in New Mexico and had obviously been tasked to look into UFOs. In his famous letter of September 23, 1947, to the Commanding General of Army Air Forces, he stated “Due consideration must be given to the following: … (2) The lack of physical evidence in the shape of crash recovered exhibits which would undeniably prove the existence of these objects.”

Many have claimed that this statement proves that no alien craft wreckage had been found in New Mexico in July. They ignore the fact that this letter had been only classified SECRET. Clearly crash wreckage would have been TOP SECRET Code word (note the NSA and CIA TS Code word UFO documents and an FBI memo claiming that the Air Force and Navy considered the subject of UFOs TOP SECRET). TOP SECRET material cannot be referenced in SECRET documents. Twining went on to be Chief of Staff of the USAF and then Chairman of the Joint Chiefs. He certainly deserved his spot on Operation Majestic 12.

I by no means intend to imply that only government officials or employees lie about UFOs. Debunkers have often made false claims. A number of so called whistleblowers have lied repeatedly about their backgrounds. These include Robert Scott Lazar, who is not a scientist, did not get degrees from MIT or Caltech, did not work for Los Alamos (he worked for a subcontractor), did not figure out how saucers work, did not steal any element 114 or 115. Frank Kaufmann was not a Roswell witness. Guy Kirkwood, a.k.a. Mel Noel, was not an Air Force pilot who took pictures of UFOs from the air. Michael Wolf Kruvant had none of the six degrees he claimed, was not a colonel/pilot in the Air Force or a consultant to MJ-12. Lt. Colonel Philip Corso was not a member of the National Security Council, etc. etc.

One can understand lying to really protect national security such as was done after the successful Atomic Bomb test in New Mexico July 16, 1945, with a story that an ammunition dump had blown up and nobody was injured. But with all the (False) claims that UFOs are no threat to the security of the USA, how can they continue to lie? If they are a threat, don’t we as citizens of a democracy have the right to know? I, for one, don’t want technical data — such as could be used by Osama Ben Laden, or Iran, or North Korea for military purposes — to be put out on the table. I do think it is of extraordinary importance for the future of this planet that we recognize we are NOT alone. We all on this planet do have something in common much as we hate to admit it. We all are Earthlings. It is time we started acting like it.

Stan Friedman

fsphys@rogers.com

REFERENCES

McDonald, Dr. James E. “Statement on UFOs” Presented to Congressional Hearings, July 29, 1968, 71 pages, 41 cases. Available from UFORI, PO Box 958, Houlton, ME 04730-0958. $10.00 Includes S&H.

Weaver, Colonel Richard “The Roswell Report: Truth vs. Fiction in the New Mexico Desert” USAF, US Government Printing Office. 1994.

Friedman, Stanton T. “Majestic 12 Documents Update,” April 2004, 26 pages, $4.00 from UFORI.

Friedman, Stanton T. “Review of ‘Case MJ-12’ by Kevin Randle,” 28 pages, $4.00 from UFORI.

“Blue Book Special Report No. 14” by Battelle Mem. Inst. 1955, 260 pages, $25.00 from UFORI. Includes S&H.

Friedman, Stanton T. “TOP SECRET/MAJIC” Marlowe & Co., 1997, 271 + xiv pages. New Edition 9/05 with additional chapter. See http://www.stantonfriedman.com. $17.00 Includes S&H. Foreword by W. Strieber.

Feschino, Frank Jr. “The Braxton County Monster: Cover-up of the Flatwoods Monster Revealed.” 2004, 351 pages, over 70 Illustrations. Hardcover available from UFORI. $33.45 Includes S&H. Foreword and Epilogue by Stanton T. Friedman.

Friedman, Stanton T. and Berliner, Don “Crash at Corona: The Definitive Study of the Roswell Incident.” 2nd. Ed., Marlowe & Company, New York, 1997, 227 pages. $15.00 from UFORI. Includes S&H.

Maccabee, Dr. Bruce “UFO-FBI Connection: The Secret History of the Government’s Cover-Up” Llewellyn Publications, St. Paul, MN 2000, 311 + xv pages. Foreword by Stanton T. Friedman.

Redfern, Nicholas “The F.B.I. Files: The FBI’s UFO TOP SECRETS EXPOSED” Simon & Schuster, 1998, 354 pages. Hardcover.


82 posted on 02/27/2007 11:03:34 AM PST by Quix (RE UFO'S WILLFUL IGNORANCE IS NOT A WISE NOR VALID SUPPORT OF BLIND CLUELESSNESS)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 69 | View Replies]

To: Quix
The evidence is overwhelming that Planet Earth is being visited by intelligently controlled extraterrestrial spacecraft. In other words, SOME UFOs are alien spacecraft... None of the arguments made against conclusions One and Two by a small group of debunkers such as Carl Sagan, my University of Chicago classmate for three years, can stand up to careful scrutiny.

This is Friedman's scientific rigor in a nutshell, folks. "Overwhelming evidence" that 1) intelligently-controlled, 2) extraterrestrial, 3) spacecraft are visiting earth? What a load of hooey. He can't produce one part of a craft, let alone show it's a spacecraft. Let's skip past that and assume there really are solid crafts flying through the air that aren't normal day-to-day aircraft, and they're intelligently piloted .... what evidence could he put up that would hold up against scrutiny to show that they came from another planet, as opposed to our own? He can't produce anything to back up his claims. Well, maybe he has an Uncle Fred who saw somethin', but that's not evidence that holds up against careful scrutiny and he knows it, or ought to if he's going to be saying this stuff.

83 posted on 02/27/2007 11:04:10 AM PST by SpringheelJack
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 76 | View Replies]

To: SpringheelJack

Naw.

It seems more fitting to let some folks remain in the dark.

I've been there and done that. They are welcome to do their own research if they REALLY are interested in the truth.

Though I have just posted some good docs from Stanton's site.


84 posted on 02/27/2007 11:05:26 AM PST by Quix (RE UFO'S WILLFUL IGNORANCE IS NOT A WISE NOR VALID SUPPORT OF BLIND CLUELESSNESS)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 74 | View Replies]

To: SpringheelJack

Have you read Stanton's side of it yet?


85 posted on 02/27/2007 11:06:20 AM PST by Quix (RE UFO'S WILLFUL IGNORANCE IS NOT A WISE NOR VALID SUPPORT OF BLIND CLUELESSNESS)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 78 | View Replies]

To: SpringheelJack

From my perspective, neither is it as cut and dried and simple as you seem to make it out to be.


86 posted on 02/27/2007 11:07:18 AM PST by Quix (RE UFO'S WILLFUL IGNORANCE IS NOT A WISE NOR VALID SUPPORT OF BLIND CLUELESSNESS)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 80 | View Replies]

To: Invincibly Ignorant

INDEED.

And the glee therewith?


87 posted on 02/27/2007 11:08:01 AM PST by Quix (RE UFO'S WILLFUL IGNORANCE IS NOT A WISE NOR VALID SUPPORT OF BLIND CLUELESSNESS)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 81 | View Replies]

To: SpringheelJack

No.

That's his summary from all his life experience and investigation of the topic.


88 posted on 02/27/2007 11:09:10 AM PST by Quix (RE UFO'S WILLFUL IGNORANCE IS NOT A WISE NOR VALID SUPPORT OF BLIND CLUELESSNESS)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 83 | View Replies]

To: Quix

Kinda late to take that back.


89 posted on 02/27/2007 11:17:10 AM PST by Invincibly Ignorant
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 88 | View Replies]

To: Quix

First alleged Weaver "lie" is not a lie at all. Nor is the 2nd; and Weaver would have no reason to lie about such a thing anyway. The 3rd "lie," McAndrew's this time, isn't a lie either, but rather his opinion that crash dummies probably accounted for reports of dead alien bodies, and an unnecessary one at that ---- no honest witness ever saw crashed bodies associated with Roswell. The ones who go on TV claiming to have seen them have all been exposed as liars, Glenn Dennis, Jim Anderson, Kaufmann, all of them. The next "lie" appears to be a personal dispute that I lack knowledge to comment on, but the next "lie" after that isn't a lie either, but an assessment by Air Force officer Weaver of in-house opinion --- Friedman is just in a snit that the Air Force wouldn't hold a document dump.

I'm not able to sift through the rest of the screed, but Friedman doesn't know the meaning of "lie," which would go far toward explaining why he keeps falling for liars like the MJ-12 hoaxer and Jim Anderson.


90 posted on 02/27/2007 11:18:47 AM PST by SpringheelJack
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 82 | View Replies]

To: Quix

His assertion that the evidence is "overwhelming" of extraterrestrial spaceships and that it withstands careful scrutiny is untrue. In whatever template you want to place it.


91 posted on 02/27/2007 11:20:59 AM PST by SpringheelJack
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 88 | View Replies]

To: SpringheelJack
Here's Stanton's commentary on the topic of the MJ12 DOCS.

from:

HERE: http://www.v-j-enterprises.com/mj12_update3.html

= = = =

Update on Operation Majestic 12 Documents

by Stanton T. Friedman
April 2004

BACKGROUND

It should be no surprise that the various highly classified Operation Majestic 12 or Majic-12 or MJ-12 documents have been attacked since their existence was first made public. Equally unsurprising is the fact that a number of phony or hoax or fraudulent MJ-12 documents have been released as well. Clearly if the original documents: The Eisenhower Briefing Document (EBD) of November 18, 1952; the Truman-Forrestal Memo (TFM) of Sept. 24, 1947 (page 8 of the EBD); and the Cutler-Twining Memo (CTM) of July 14, 1954 (found in July, 1985, in Box 189 of Entry 267 of Record Group 341 at the National Archives by Jaime Shandera and William Moore) are genuine, then the consequences are enormous. Aliens are visiting earth; the government has recovered at least one crashed saucer and several alien bodies; and a very significant group of outstanding American scientists and military leaders has collected, reviewed, evaluated, and kept secret all kinds of information about the visitors. Man is NOT alone and the government has covered up the biggest story of the millennium at least since 1947.

Ten years after the 1984 receipt of a roll of exposed 35mm film by Jaime Shandera at his Burbank, California home and his efforts with William Moore and myself to evaluate them, a new roll of film showed up in the mailbox of aviation and science writer (and longtime ufologist) Don Berliner. This contained many pages of SOM 1-01: Majestic 12 Group SPECIAL OPERATIONS MANUAL: "Extraterrestrial Entities and Technology, Recovery and Disposal." Meanwhile Tim Cooper, a researcher in Big Bear Lake, California, began receiving loads of supposedly related MJ-12 documents. There would appear to be no connection between the original three documents and the SOM 1.01 (Mailed from Wisconsin rather than Albuquerque, NM) or the mass of Tim Cooper documents which were usually in the form of Xerox copies, often only legible with difficulty and received by him by mail or dropped off at his PO Box.

THE DEBUNKERS

There seem to be several distinct groups attacking the documents:

A. There are those who believe (despite all the evidence to the contrary) that no alien spacecraft have ever visited Earth. Therefore, any documents saying that they have must be false. No need to do a detailed investigation, to spend time in Archives, research the people involved, etc. THEY MUST BE FRAUDULENT!!

B. There are those who are convinced that some UFOs are indeed alien spacecraft, but that no saucer crashed near Roswell because they haven't found any other classified documents indicating any have. Karl Pflock in his book (Ref.1) epitomizes this approach. If no saucer crashed at Roswell, then the documents must be fake.

C. There are several former military people who are convinced that the documents must be false because the style, format, details, etc. do not match what they would have expected them to be based on their military service from the 1960s onward. This ignores the many changes in office procedures (copy machines, word processors, etc.) and the fact that the White House is a civilian organization not a military one.

D. There are a lot of armchair theorists who think they can make judgements without doing any homework at all.

In much of the discussion one finds the use of the four basic rules for debunking of any controversial idea:

1. What the public doesn't know, I won't tell them.

2. Don't bother me with the facts, my mind is made up.

3. If one can't attack the data, attack the people; it is easier.

4. Do one's research by proclamation; investigation is too much trouble.

Another important rule for some of the attackers is that "Absence of Evidence is Evidence for Absence." Karl Pflock and others cite numerous documents, mostly only classified Secret, that say nothing about Roswell or MAJESTIC 12. This, of course, neglects the fact that there are still numerous documents from the Truman and Eisenhower eras 1945-1961 that are still classified, that we rarely see documents that have classification stamps of TOP SECRET Code Word (TSCW). I was told in November, 2003, by an archivist at the Ike Library that they still have about 300,000 pages of classified documents. We know that the NSA classified 156 UFO documents (found in response to a Judge's directive) as TOP SECRET UMBRA when they finally released a highly expurgated version (about two lines per page are not covered with Wite-Out), supposedly because that information is about sources and methods. Why would it be listed under UFOs if only 5% is about UFOs?

In addition, as a result of my spending a lot of time at twenty different Document Archives from coast to coast, I can say that almost never does one find TSCW documents about anything. The best documents for comparison with the EBD would be the four National Security Briefings for President-Elect Eisenhower presented by DCI Walter B. Smith in the time period between Ike's election on November 4, 1952, and January 9, 1953, when Smith informed President Truman of his security briefings for Ike before and after the election. Unfortunately, despite my FOIA request to the CIA and a subsequent appeal to their response ("We have nothing in response to your request" even though I gave the dates and times of two of the briefings), we have no such documents for comparison.

I won't try to cover all the existent literature on the documents. There is my 1990 108-page "Final Report On Operation Majestic 12" (Ref. 2) and my 272-page 1996 book "TOP SECRET/MAJIC" (Ref. 3). There are several lengthy papers (Ref. 4-8) and Kevin Randle's new book "Case MJ-12" (Ref. 9). There are also numerous statements on the Internet.

Academics have found it necessary to jump into the fray as well, often without benefit of any research. For example, Carl Sagan (Ref.10) said "The Air Force says the documents are bogus. And UFO expert Philip J. Klass and others find lexicographic inconsistencies that suggest the whole thing is a hoax." He seemed to be unaware of the fact that Klass had paid me $1000.00 for providing more than fourteen documents done in exactly the same Pica typeface as the Cutler-Twining Memo though Klass, on the basis of nine Elite Typeface documents (obtained by him by mail, he had never been to the Ike Library) of the 250,000 pages of NSC material at the Ike Library, had insisted the CTM should have been done in Elite! Some lexicographic research! Our correspondence and a copy of his check to me are in Ref. 2.

Dr. Robert Alan Goldberg in the Roswell Chapter of his book "Enemies Within" (Ref. 11) stated

Evidence of malfeasance was plentiful. Critics noted that the date format did not conform to governmental style, the papers carried no top secret registration number, military titles were improperly noted and signatures appeared to be grafted on to the document. Anachronistic usages like "media" and "impacted" further betrayed the find. Goldberg is a Professor of History at the University of Utah. Anybody spending much time at the Truman and Eisenhower Archives would find many different date formats in classified, limited distribution, old documents. In Ref. 2 I published three brief cover memos from CIA Director Allen Dulles to White House Staff Secretary Colonel Andrew Goodpaster, done within a ten-day period, using these three date formats: 12 November l956... November 20, 1956... And NOV 22 1956 (Rubber stamp) and even noted one file folder that had seven date formats and found examples of both Roscoe Hillenkoetter and W.B. Smith (DCIs and MJ-12 members) using the day, month, comma, year format of the EBD. Goldberg didn't bother to check the Oxford Dictionary. Both "media" and "impacted" were in use at the time. I will discuss military titles below.

TOP SECRET CONTROL NUMBERS

The old military guys have persistently attacked the fact that the EBD, the TFM, and the CTM items all lacked a TOP SECRET CONTROL number. They vociferously insisted that all TS documents must have a TS control number.

Ed Stewart made a truly strong claim on UFO UPDATES:

For those who might not be aware, here is something that you will not hear from Stanton T. Friedman, even though he is well aware of the fact having visited the archives on many times in his own words. RG 341 is a record group with nothing but declassified Top Secret documents. All documents in the group are filed by control numbers. If a document did not have a Top Secret control number, it would not have been able to be filed in RG 341. Repeat, every document in RG 341 is a Top Secret document that has been declassified and has a control number, the entire record group.

This was a truly incredible proclamation and is totally false. One might be forgiven for thinking Ed was claiming to have reviewed all of RG 341. Record Group 341 has 9787 cubic feet of material (about 1000 4-drawer filling cabinets). I have, since 1985, had a 56-page Preliminary Inventory of the Records for RG 341 which lists various entries and how many feet of files are in each and how much of the total is TS: typically only a few percent. For example "Unclassified through Secret, Incoming and Outgoing messages 1946-Dec. 1957", 1743 ft. Entry 21 of RG 341. "Top Secret Incoming and Outgoing Messages, Oct. 1947-Jan, 1958", 51ft. Entry 23 of RG 341. In other words there were only 3% (51 of 1743) as many TS messages as those through SECRET. Furthermore many of the documents are still classified. I pointed this out on the UFO Updates Internet interest group. Ed's response after a few days of silence was

My apologies to Stanton Friedman. On attempting to verify the statements I made with the source of the information, it became apparent that much that I had posted related to RG 341 was misleading to false. I asked for clarification, which was promised, but after four days was undelivered. I felt a reply to Friedman's last message needed to be time-sensitive to be of any value. Thus my apology to Stanton Friedman and readers of this mailing list for having posted the first paragraph of my last message which is not supported by facts. Unfortunately, I will not be available for further discussion on the UFO subject. I have decided there isn't anyone in this field that I really care to associate with any longer regardless of what their opinions are.

Like the kid who takes his marbles and goes home.

Jan Aldrich who, like Ed, is quite knowledgeable about army classification procedures, later picked up the same argument even after I pointed out that I had been told by the Archivist Larry Bland at the General George Marshall holdings in Virginia, that if they had to use TS control numbers in Marshall's day, on all TS documents, we would still be fighting WW 2. I noted that an archivist at the Ike Library said that often the White House didn't use TS Control numbers. I had published two TS documents without control numbers in Ref. 2 in 1990. One would think they were relevant since they came from Robert Cutler and wound up in General Nathan Twining's papers at the Library of Congress Manuscript Division. Jan said it would only count if the originals at the Ike Library had no TS Control numbers. Dr. Herbert Pankratz at the Ike Library graciously supplied me with a Xerox copy of the one memo he found (It indeed had no TS control number) and noted in writing on January 9, 2003, "We have numerous documents classified as 'TOP SECRET' which do not have control numbers on them." I should stress that, of course, many TS documents do have TS control numbers -- especially when there are multiple copies of a many-page document. The EBD says "Copy One of One."

TOP SECRET RESTRICTED

Many including the US government have made a big thing about the typed security marking on the brief CTM: TOP SECRET RESTRICTED over a line saying SECURITY INFORMATION. The point is that supposedly this was never used and doesn't make sense because TOP SECRET is the highest category and RESTRICTED is the lowest. The Archives in their first version (May 9, 1988) of a commentary about the CTM stated "The Acting Director of the FOI office of the NSC informed us that TSR is a marking which did not come into use at the NSC until the Nixon Administration [1969]. The Eisenhower Presidential Library also confirms that this particular marking was not used during the Eisenhower Administration." They later corrected several false claims in response to data provided by me. I must admit that although I had found Confidential Restricted and Secret Restricted, I had not found TOP SECRET RESTRICTED. Does that mean it wasn't used? NO, since we have seen only a small amount of TS material. It should be noted that often highly classified information from one administration was carried over to the next at the White House rather than being sent to the appropriate presidential Library. The Ike Library had a number of documents from the Truman era that were not at the Truman Library.

The uncertainty was removed when the General Accounting Office in its pursuit in many archives for Roswell-related material made the following statement on page 80 of their 400-plus-page report on their Roswell Investigation:

Dec. 7, 1994, Ms. LJ and I reviewed records pertaining to the Air Force's atomic energy and certain mission and weapons requirements. These files were classified up to and including Top Secret. The period covered by these records was from 1948-1956. There was no mention of the Roswell Incident. No information pertaining to the assignment was obtained. In several instances we noticed the classification Top Secret Restricted used on several documents. This is mentioned because in past references to this classification (Majestic 12) we were told that it was not used during this period." [Italics added] I tried to obtain copies of the materials they had seen. I was told that the materials were still classified. Clearly absence of evidence was NOT evidence for absence. An obvious question is why would a clever forger use a security marking that was so uncommon rather than just a plain vanilla TOP SECRET? How did he know to place a slant red pencil mark through the marking? I was informed that this was standard practice prior to declassification. An obscure detail indeed.

page 2

Update on Operation Majestic 12 Documents

Page 2

MILITARY RANK CONFUSION

Kevin Randle's major complaint about the MJ-12 papers is that the military ranks are blatantly wrong. On page 2 of the EBD, Roscoe H. Hillenkoetter (DCI 1947-1950) is noted thusly: "BRIEFING OFFICER: ADM. ROSCOE H. HILLENKOETTER (MJ-1)" and is listed lower on the page with a beginning line of "Members of the Majestic 12 Group were designated [referring to establishment of the group on 24 September, 1947 -- note the same date format as on the cover page listing of 18 November, 1952] as follows: "Adm. Roscoe H. Hillenkoetter, Gen. Nathan F. Twining, Gen. Hoyt S. Vandenberg, Gen. Robert Montague."

The kicker here is that Hillenkoetter was not a Full Admiral but only a Rear Admiral.

However, in September, 1947, Montague was only a Brigadier General and Twining and Vandenberg were only Lieutenant Generals. (Vandenberg got his 4th star in October 1947). In short, the writer of the briefing was consistent in using generic ranks. This makes perfect sense in view of three factors:

1. In mixed groups of civilians and military people, what rank can one give the civilians?

2. The navy has only three flag ranks: Vice, Rear and Full Admirals, but the army has four: Brigadier, Major, Lieutenant, and Full (4-star) Generals.

3. The names were listed as they had been designated in 1947, but some ranks had changed prior to November 1952. Generic ranks get around that problem.

Early on Randle had asked me for other examples of Hillenkoetter signing memos as Admiral. I had to point out that there is no Hillenkoetter signature on the EBD, so the question is irrelevant.

This argument may sound weak, but General Arthur Exon, Colonel Jesse Marcel Jr. and Commander Thomas Deuley had no trouble with generic ranks. Ike himself in his books used them. Fortunately, because of the work of California researcher Brian Parks, I was able to locate a relevant example of just this same approach. Andrew Goodpaster (by this time a Brigadier General) had written a classified memo dated June 30, 1958, in which he listed the attendees at a meeting on June 27, 1958. Several were civilians and five were military. All of the latter, including himself, were listed as General or Admiral even though only one was a 4-star. However, his signature is Brigadier General. Goodpaster had been with Ike from the start of his presidency in 1953, so surely knew the right protocol for the White House. During a visit in November, 2003, I found a number of these "memcons" from General Goodpaster using generic ranks for meeting attendees including himself but signing Brigadier General.

MEMBERS OF MJ-12

Many people in ufology had serious difficulty with Dr. Donald H. Menzel being listed as a member of MJ-12. After all he was, at the time in 1952, the best known UFO sceptic. By the time of his death in 1976, he had written three very negative books and given a number of papers -- all attacking UFO reality. Often his UFO science, as has been noted by Dr. Bruce Maccabee and Brad Sparks and Dr. James E. McDonald (Ref. 12) was almost ludicrous. As I have noted elsewhere, his presence on the committee had bothered Bill Moore, Jaime Shandera and myself right from the start suggesting that the memo was a hoax. There was obviously the problem of all the others, based on readily available information, having had very high level security clearances. But surely one didn't need a clearance to teach astronomy at Harvard?

I hadn't liked Menzel, but did a lot of checking. I had viewed his UFO correspondence at the American Philosophical Library in Philadelphia, found out that his papers were at the Harvard Archives with some also at the University of Denver. After getting approval from three different people to view the Harvard holdings, I paid a visit to Harvard at the expense of the Fund for UFO research. There I made a shocking discovery that Menzel was up to his ears in very highly classified work for the CIA, NSA, and more than thirty companies. He had taught cryptography before WW 2, learned a different symbolic language (Japanese) and worked on all kinds of classified problems for many years after WW 2.

He told Jack Kennedy he could tell him more about the NSA when they were properly cleared to each other. Menzel had been associated with the NSA and its navy predecessor for thirty years as of 1960! None of this was noted in an eight-page appreciation in Sky and Telescope after his death (Ref. 13). I published an article in IUR (Ref. 14) and gave more details in Ref. 2 and Ref. 3. I had early on noted correspondence between Menzel's attorney and MJ-12 member Bush thanking Bush for his support of Menzel at a terrible USAF Loyalty Hearing. The file is at the Harvard Archives. Fascinating reading.

Many in ufology claimed that Menzel couldn't have led a double life as a public debunker and a private advocate of the notion that the aliens recovered at Roswell were "beings from another solar system entirely." All admitted that they knew nothing of his clandestine postwar activities. Some, many years later, were able to obtain some government files on Menzel. None have shown that these were known prior to my discoveries in 1986. I should point out that many very bright spies led double lives for years such as Kim Philby, Guy Burgess and Donald Maclean who were Soviet spies working for many years in British intelligence. Claus Fuchs who spied at Los Alamos certainly led a double life.

Randle says little about the other MJ-12 members, but, after misrepresenting my reasons for saying that Menzel belonged on the group, had the following comment:

Nowhere did he [Friedman] find any mention of MJ-12 [in his papers and records]. There are no marginal notes, no oblique references, no highly placed correspondence that suggests, mentions, identifies or confirms the existence of MJ-12 or Menzel's connection to it.

This is another one of those "absence of evidence" claims. Certainly I had never claimed to have found any direct evidence. But none of Menzel's files at the Harvard Archives were classified despite all his classified activities. He had already spent thirty years (as of 1960) working for the NSA and its Navy predecessors. No rational person would expect him to have left classified materials about a TOP SECRET Code Word black budget activity, whose very existence was classified, in the open.

Kal Korff claimed (Ref.15) that he had classified access to Menzel's government records. He mentions the CIA but never mentions the NSA connection which was the focus of my articles.

LINGUISTICS

None of the vocal critics including Randle even discuss the findings of world-class linguistics expert Dr. Roger Wescott. At the suggestion of attorney Bob Bletchman, I had obtained 27 examples of Hillenkoetter's various writings from the Truman Library. Dr. Wescott reviewed these and the EBD and stated in an April 7, 1988, letter to Bob

In my opinion there is no compelling reason to regard any of these communications as fraudulent or to believe that any of them were written by anyone other than Hillenkoetter himself. This statement holds for the controversial presidential briefing memorandum of November 18, 1952, as well as for the letters, both official and personal. (Letter is page E-2 of Ref. 2. Randle has a copy.)

TRUMAN FORRESTAL MEMO

Right from the start the TFM has been the target of the debunkers. Phil Klass in a fast press release after Bill Moore publicized the EBD, TFM, and CTM, had claimed it was an obvious fraud since it made all kinds of mistakes compared to real Truman letters. He used the word "letter" nine times even though it is clearly headed "Memorandum." Many have claimed that the typewriter was obviously from 1960 proving it was a fraud (no forensic document analysis was provided). Most claimed that the signature was identical to that on another memo from Truman to MJ-12 member Vannevar Bush. First measurements clearly indicated it was not an exact copy since the lengths of various segments seemed not to match. Randle provided the off-the-cuff opinion of Peter Tytell, a world-class Questioned Documents examiner. Moore, Shandera and I had sent a copy of the documents to PT who didn't want his name used anywhere, and prepared no report, but apparently claimed the typewriter typeface was not in use until the 1960s. Randle quotes him thusly "It was just perfect because the whole thing of the twelve pages or however many pages it was. Most of the pages were just blank pages with just five words written on them like Top Secret or Appendix A or something like that." In reality there were eight pages and only one, page 7, (not included by Randle) had "Appendix A." Fortunately Dr. Robert M. Wood hired an expert, James A. Black, to perform a professional examination. On November 13, 1998, Black stated

My knowledge of typewriter fonts permits me to conclude that the letter was likely to have been typed by an Underwood Standard typewriter. The portions of the type font of the letter that can be clearly visualized match those of a typewriter exemplar of an Underwood Standard typed in May 1940.

Black also added that that the disputed signature is most likely a reproduction. "I reached this opinion because the ink line is homogenous and feathering is absent at the ends of the lines." Does this prove the document is a fraud? The real question is where would there have been an original of the memo with a signature?? Forrestal's ORIGINAL would have been signed, but who else would have received a signed copy? One expects that Dr. Bush and the DCI (Hillenkoetter) noted in the memo would have had copies. Most likely unsigned. Forrestal died in May, 1949, three years earlier. Since we know that W.B. Smith was briefing Ike at this time (1952) on National Security matters, presumably Hillenkoetter, then at the Brooklyn Navy Yard, may well have had the EBD typed at the CIA. Smith (who worked very closely with Ike during WW 2) might well have said that Ike likes documents with signatures. Surely the CIA had the capability of lifting a signature from the memo from Truman to Bush (ironically I had found that in the Bush papers at the LCMD).

Of course, none of the critics of the memo note that the numerical portion of the date "24,1947." is offset from the September and done with a different typewriter. Bush's office always put a period after the date. Rarely did Truman's. George Elsey, who worked for Roosevelt at the White House and then for Truman during his entire term in office, told me that most of what a President signs is prepared by other people and sometimes the documents have to have the date typed later when it is clear which date is appropriate. He could find no reason to say the EBD, TFM, or CTM were fraudulent. Truman was very busy at that time as the New National Security apparatus was being installed, the USAF was separated from the Army, the CIA was created from the Central Intelligence Group, etc. etc. Why would a hoaxer use two different typewriters and put a period after the date? Forgers normally do as little as possible to call attention to idiosyncrasies in the forgeries -- whether paintings or documents.

Other critics of the signature claim, based on Albert S. Osborne's book "Questioned Documents", that no two signatures are alike. Actually, Osborne said that one could have identical signatures, just not consecutively. After the 1948 election Truman commented to a family member that he was signing 500 thank-you notes an hour.

Some were surely identical to others. Klass had even claimed the Osborne book was published in 1978, when it would have covered Xeroxing, when it fact it was published in 1910 and the chapter involved is entitled "Traced Forgeries."

HOW DID A HOAXER KNOW SO MUCH?

In Ref. 2 I provided a list of more than 37 facts not known to be true until after the EBD, TFM, and CTM had been received or found. A lot were trivial such as the date given, August 1, 1950, for Smith having permanently replaced the deceased Forrestal as an MJ-12 member. I obtained from the Truman Library the fact that that was the only date when Truman and Smith met during a many-month period of time before Smith succeeded Hillenkoetter as DCI. They had not provided that information to anyone else.

The CTM has neither a signature nor /s/ as do the other two memos we had from Cutler to Twining. Cutler was out of the country on that date, so could not have signed any letter. However, he left detailed instructions with James Lay, Exec. Sec. of the NSC, to keep things moving out of his basket while he was gone. I published that letter and the one from Lay to Cutler while Cutler was overseas saying he was taking care of things, in Ref. 2. It took me two years to get the latter via mandatory classification review through the Ike Library as it was still classified when I found a withdrawal sheet noting it. I had also discovered that earlier that day (July 14, 1954) Lay had met with Ike and they had a phone conversation at around 4:30 PM. George Elsey told me that Lay and Cutler worked very closely together and Lay would certainly have sent a brief note for Cutler to Twining making a trivial change in schedule. How did the forger know NOT to sign the memo nor use /s/ since it was some time after the discovery of the CTM that Robert Todd found the memo from Cutler to Lay saying he would be gone??? Todd is strongly opposed to Roswell, MJ-12, Bill Moore, Jaime Shandera, Jesse Marcel, etc. It is also interesting that the Cutler-Lay memo underlines a few words as does the CTM. This is uncommon in documents of that era, but apparently was used by Lay and Cutler about NSC matters.

The EBD says that the detailed investigation of Roswell began on July 7, 1947. Several years AFTER its receipt, in a newly declassified box of General Twining's papers, I found his flight log which shows that he indeed flew to New Mexico from Dayton on July 7, 1947. This was confirmed by his pilot's flight log as well, also found much later. How did anybody know that date fit?

Some people have complained that anybody could have found out what I did about Menzel prior to receipt of the EBD. Yes, of course, the documents were sitting at the Harvard Archives. But it took three signatures, including his wife's, for me to gain access. No evidence has been claimed or put forth that anybody else had looked at the papers before I had. Some have even falsely suggested that I noted the letters to Kennedy, etc., at the readily accessible APL Menzel UFO Correspondence file. They weren't there. No permission signatures were required for that access. I am reminded of people who claim "I could have bought that land for a song 25 years ago." -- but they hadn't.

page 3

[QUIX NOTE: I'LL PUT THE REST OF THE DOC IMAGES AFTER HIS SUMMARY BELOW rather than try and find where in the text they'd most likely fit] PHONY DOCUMENTS

Tim Cooper of Big Bear Lake, California, had received a load of supposed MJ-12 documents over a period of time. With the exception of a lengthy piece on the history of UFOs (Bowen Document) which is on original paper but only has a magenta TOP SECRET MAJIC stamped on it, they are Xerox copies. In a number of instances the originals were very hard to read which meant much time was spent trying to decipher the words. To some this means authenticity. One had bothered me because it was supposedly a memo from Admiral Hillenkoetter to President Truman (Feb. 17, 1948) noting that President Truman wasn't getting much of the MAJIC material being received in large quantities every 24 hours. Marshall would prepare special black books for Truman (see Figure 1). This made no sense. Truman wasn't an engineer or scientist. What was the purpose of so much material going to him? It sounded to me like it would have been from Marshall to Roosevelt about the MAGIC material being processed by the ton after we broke the Japanese codes during WW 2. I was also concerned by the recently discovered "machines" and so much "product" being received every day. Sounded very much like what would have been a letter from General Marshall to President Roosevelt during WW 2 talking about the "intelligence product" of code breaking using a cipher machine.

My suspicions were confirmed when I discovered the original (see Figure 2), from Marshall to Roosevelt, about MAGIC, in the readily available book "The American MAGIC" in the University of New Brunswick Library not far from the very important book "Wedemeyer Reports" by General Albert C. Wedemeyer.

On the other hand there was one which I thought was genuine because some regulations which were noted in an item to C. Humelsine matched info turned up by Larry Bryant at the Pentagon. The signature was Humelsine's according to his wife (see Figure 3). Marshall was in New York according to the archives, hence the need for using the referenced secret telephone. (But then look carefully at Figure 4, clearly an emulation.) There were a number that were questionable. A real breakthrough came when I asked for an opinion from Archivist Larry Bland at the Marshall Archives about a letter supposedly from Marshall to Humelsine (see Figure 5). He immediately recognized it as a takeoff on a famous letter (see Figure 6, also from Lewin's book) from Marshall to Governor Thomas Dewey (the Republican Candidate for President in the election of 1944) trying to get Dewey not to make any charges that we had broken the Japanese codes since that would lead to their being changed and would cost many lives. Marshall noted that he couldn't be seen with Dewey. The emulation said he couldn't be seen with Humelsine!! But Humelsine had been his executive secretary during WW 2 and was again playing that role to Marshall as Secretary of State. They saw each other almost every day. Also it was addressed "Dear Carl:" but Marshall essentially never used first names except for contemporaries. Marshall was decades older than Humelsine.

This was a real break. I also asked Bland if he could see any reason why General Albert C. Wedemeyer (his signature is on one of the Cooper documents) should be connected with MJ-12. His field was China. He had served there during WW 2 and was sent in 1947 to make a study about what the effects would be if the US did or did not get heavily involved in fighting the communists. Bland agreed that he couldn't see the connection either. He mentioned that there was an entire book "Wedemeyer Reports" (Ref. 16). I located it at the nearby University of New Brunswick Library. Almost immediately I found three documents that were the models for three phony emulations. The technique was straightforward. Retype an existing document with an old typewriter, making a few changes (dates etc.) to conceal the chicanery, scan or Xerox the handwritten portions of documents, combine, and voila, a genuine-looking phony. I checked other books at the library and sure enough the book "The American Magic" had both the original of the Dewey letter (Figure 6) and the original Marshall Magic letter (Figure 2). Bob Wood had located the original (Figure 4) of the letter supposedly from Marshall to Truman via Humelsine letter. It was from Marshall to Truman about Wedemeyer, not Twining. (Figure 4). I hadn't paid attention to the fact that I knew from Twining's pilot log that he flew to DC on Sept. 26, not Sept. 25.

Almost all of the phony documents not only had word-for-word portions of the original, but the handwritten items fit right on top. Even though there was a Truman signature, a handwritten date (July 9, 1947) and "I approve." Spacing was perfect. See the emulation (Figure 7) of a supposed July 9 Directive to General Twining. Compare it to the Genuine item from Wedemeyer's book (Figure 8). A number of the non-emulation documents had direct quotes from the phony ones establishing that they were phony as well. One of the phony documents (Figure 9) had some handwritten portions from two documents that I had copied at the Marshall Archives with Truman saying "I approve" or "holding for further study" etc. I had sent off copies of the 23 sign offs I had collected to some people including Tim Cooper. Also, all had mistakes in the text that made no sense such as "when finished in New Mexico go to Sandia." This was to Twining, an emulation of a real directive to Wedemeyer in which it was said "when finished in China go to Korea." Korea is not in China, but Sandia is in New Mexico. The handwritten date on the Wedemeyer directive (which according to Ref. 16, he wrote) is July 9. But Twining went to New Mexico on July 7. It makes sense for Wedmeyer to take along specialists from State, Treasury, the Navy because he had to look at the total Chinese picture. Not only would those people make no sense as a part of the Twining expedition, but we know who went with Twining from an article in the Alamogordo paper saying Twining had made a routine inspection of Alomogordo Army Air Field (later Holloman AFB).

The fraudulence is further noted by the supposed letter from Twining to the President dated Sept. 19 (see Figure 10) about presenting his findings. Compare the almost identical wording to that of the real items from Wedemeyer to the President's Office. (Figure 11). Twining's flight log proves he was only gone from July 7 - July 11 (hardly 2 months). Could Twining's small group really have generated the same exact number of documents -- 1200 -- as Wedemeyer's?

Note also the big paragraph on the first page of the supposed First Annual Report from Twining (Figure 12). It is clearly lifted from the emulation of the Wedemeyer "... In consonance..." (see Figure 11). Repeating a phony portion of a document in another document doesn't make it genuine.

Bob and Ryan Wood have suggested that General Marshall must have prepared both directives. Not only did General Wedemeyer (an expert on China) say he had prepared his own directive, but he was based in Baltimore in the Army, knew many of the key figures in China, and was reporting to Secretary of State Marshall who had spent most of 1946 in China. Twining was based in Dayton, was head of the Air Material Command, had been head of the 15th and 20th Air Forces and served on The National Advisory Council on Aeronautics with a very strong technical background. The two situations (China in a political upheaval) and an alien saucer in New Mexico were drastically different. Wedemeyer needed presidential authority to speak for the US in China. How could Marshall have used almost identical language and why would he be instructing Twining??

There is a detailed discussion in Ref. 7. This phony boloney stuff clearly established almost all of the documents were phony and is discussed in Ref. 7. Some people insist that if I can't provide the identity of the forger and the reason for forging, that they must be real. I can't follow the logic. My concern is if they are genuine. I can't find a motive for serial killers, for grown men who sexually attack small children, for parents who abuse their children. But it happens. One quite obvious motivation would be to cast doubts on the legitimate documents, a sort of guilt by association. Another might be to waste the time and money of researchers. Ryan Wood of Majesticdocuments.com claims that all the Cooper documents are genuine. However, in his paper (Ref. 17) he talks at length about the various versions of the Truman to Wedemeyer Directive but never shows the full page from Wedemeyer's book next to the Twining one so that one can't see the identity in placement and handwriting of the three handwritten comments. This same problem holds on the Humelsine documents. He shows several different versions of the directive to Wedemeyer, but never shows all the other pairs of original and emulation documents as noted here. He also seems to feel that Marshall was in charge of both Wedemeyer, based in Baltimore, and Twining; though Marshall was Secretary of State and not in the War [soon to be Defense] Department. Twining was Head of the Air Materiel Department in Ohio -- definitely in the chain of command of the Army.

It also makes perfect sense for the Wedemeyer directive to say "In presenting the findings of your mission you should endeavor to state as concisely as possible your estimate of the character, extent and probable consequences of assistance which you may recommend, and the probable consequences in the event that assistance is not given." China was a major foreign policy headache with the communists taking over. But what sense does this comment make in the Twining Directive "In presenting the findings of your mission you should endeavor to state as concisely as possible your estimate of the character, extent and probable consequences in the event that assistance is not given"? Assistance to whom for what? Makes no sense at all. One document claims that Air Force General Carl Spaatz met with Twining in New Mexico on July 7, 1947. I was able to show via Spaatz's flight log, his desk calendar, and a newspaper article, that he was fishing in Port Aransas, Texas, several hundred miles away.

There are a whole host of false claims in others of the Cooper documents including a number of technical errors such as referring to "deuterium, light hydrogen." But Deuterium is HEAVY hydrogen. Other errors are noted in Ref. 7, p. 207.

OVERALL SUMMARY

The Majestic 12 documents problem is complex and extensive. On balance it appears that the EBD, TFM and CTM are almost certainly genuine, the SOM 1.01 memo is very likely genuine (see Dr. Robert Woods paper (Ref. 18)) and the Tim Cooper Documents are emulations and fictional. It is perhaps not surprising that a documentary movie "Do you Believe in Majic?" is being prepared by Paul Kimball of Redstar films who had dug into a great deal of UFO material in preparation for the documentary "Stanton T. Friedman IS Real!" (Ref. 19) first broadcast on the Canadian Space TV channel in June 2002. Critics have been interviewed. One strange criticsm was made by Karl Pflock when he claimed twice that because Menzel was famous for doodling small cartoon Martians that the statement in the EBD that Menzel was saying the aliens were from Mars was an inside joke. I am afraid the joke is on Karl. The EBD (p. 4) says exactly the opposite:

... considerable speculation has centered around what their point of origin might be and how they get here. Mars was and remains a possibility, although some scientists, most notably Dr. Menzel, consider it more likely that we are dealing with beings from another solar system entirely.

[QUIX BOLD EMPHASIS]

[DOC IMAGES FROM PAGE 3 in roughly order they appeared in]

Stan Friedman

fsphys@rogers.com

HERE: http://www.stantonfriedman.com

REFERENCES

1. Pflock, Karl T. "Roswell: Inconvenient Facts and the Will to Believe" 2001, Prometheus Books, Amherst, NY 331 pages, Hardcover.

2. Friedman, Stanton T. "Final Report on Operation Majestic 12" 15th Printing 2003, 108 pages, $10.00 Including Shipping and Handling from UFORI, POB 958, Houlton, ME 04730-0958

3. Friedman, Stanton T. "TOP SECRET/MAJIC" 272 pages, Marlowe and Co., 10-page Bibliography, 1996 HC List $22.95. Autographed, 0nly $15.00 Incl. S & H, UFORI

4. Friedman, Stanton T. "Crashed Saucers, Majestic 12 and the Debunkers" July 1992, MUFON Conf., 21 pages. 48 Refs. $4.00 From UFORI

5. Randle, Kevin D. "Conclusions on Operation Majestic 12" August 1994. 30 pages. FUND For UFO Research

6. Friedman, Stanton T. "Operation Majestic 12? YES!!" 1994, 37 pages 50 Ref. $4.00 UFORI

7. Friedman, Stanton T. "Roswell and the MJ-12 Documents in the New Millennium" MUFON July 2000, 28 pages 20 Ref., $4.00 UFORI

8. Friedman, Stanton T. "Review of Case MJ-12" January 2003, at website www.stantonfriedman.com; 9000 words, 27 pages Also $4.00, UFORI

9. Randle, Kevin D. "Case MJ-12:The True Story Behind the Government's UFO Conspiracies" Dec. 2002, Harper Torch, Paperback, 311 pages. $7.50

10. Sagan, Carl "The Demon Haunted World: Science as a Candle in the Dark" Random House, 1995, 475 pages.

11. Goldberg, Robert Alan "Enemies Within: The Culture of Conspiracy in Modern America" Yale University Press, 2001, 368 pages. Chapter 6, "The Roswell Incident"

12. McDonald, James E. "Statement on UFOs" to Congressional Hearings, July 1968. 71 pages. Data on 41 cases. $10.00 From UFORI

13. Goldberg, Leo "An Appreciation of Donald Howard Menzel" Sky and Telescope, April 1977.

14. Friedman, Stanton T. "The Secret Life of Donald H. Menzel" International UFO Reporter, Jan./Feb. 1988 pp. 20-24.

15. Korff, Kal "The Roswell UFO Crash: What They Don't Want You to Know" Prometheus Books, Amherst, NY, 1997 264 pages.

16. Wedemeyer, Albert C. "Wedemeyer Reports!" Henry Holt and Co. 1958, 496 pages.

17. Wood, Ryan "Resolving the Emulation in Directives Between Twining and Wedemeyer" pp. 199-240, UFO Crash Retrieval Conference Proceedings, Nov.14-16, Las Vegas, NV, 240 pages, $25.00 From Ryan Wood, 14004 Quail Ridge Dr., Broomfield, CO 80020 rswood@majesticdocuments.com

18. Wood, Robert M. "Authenticating the Special Operations Manual" pp. 165-184 See item 17.

19. Video "Stanton T. Friedman IS Real!" by Redstar Films, 2002, 48 minutes, TV Documentary, $20.00 From UFORI.

92 posted on 02/27/2007 11:34:07 AM PST by Quix (RE UFO'S WILLFUL IGNORANCE IS NOT A WISE NOR VALID SUPPORT OF BLIND CLUELESSNESS)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 80 | View Replies]

To: SpringheelJack

Not from my perspective and the mass of info I've seen in 45 years.

As to the MJ12 DOCS . . . I just posted Stanton's responses above.


93 posted on 02/27/2007 11:35:55 AM PST by Quix (RE UFO'S WILLFUL IGNORANCE IS NOT A WISE NOR VALID SUPPORT OF BLIND CLUELESSNESS)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 91 | View Replies]

To: SpringheelJack

First alleged Weaver "lie" is not a lie at all. Nor is the 2nd; and Weaver would have no reason to lie about such a thing anyway. The 3rd "lie," McAndrew's this time, isn't a lie either, but rather his opinion that crash dummies probably accounted for reports of dead alien bodies, and an unnecessary one at that ---- no honest witness ever saw crashed bodies associated with Roswell. The ones who go on TV claiming to have seen them have all been exposed as liars, Glenn Dennis, Jim Anderson, Kaufmann, all of them. The next "lie" appears to be a personal dispute that I lack knowledge to comment on, but the next "lie" after that isn't a lie either, but an assessment by Air Force officer Weaver of in-house opinion --- Friedman is just in a snit that the Air Force wouldn't hold a document dump.

= = =

What a very curious response.

I guess you are of the opinion that dummies falling from the air years later were mistaken years earlier for ET's?

LOL ROTFLOL

GTTM! LOL


94 posted on 02/27/2007 11:37:49 AM PST by Quix (RE UFO'S WILLFUL IGNORANCE IS NOT A WISE NOR VALID SUPPORT OF BLIND CLUELESSNESS)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 90 | View Replies]

To: Invincibly Ignorant

No biggy. Your attitude to me ceased to be a surprise a long time ago.


95 posted on 02/27/2007 11:39:17 AM PST by Quix (RE UFO'S WILLFUL IGNORANCE IS NOT A WISE NOR VALID SUPPORT OF BLIND CLUELESSNESS)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 89 | View Replies]

To: Quix
No biggy. Your attitude to me ceased to be a surprise a long time ago.

Like yours is beyond reproach. lol.

96 posted on 02/27/2007 11:42:50 AM PST by Invincibly Ignorant
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 95 | View Replies]

To: Invincibly Ignorant

Where have I pretended my attitude was beyond reproach?


97 posted on 02/27/2007 11:44:48 AM PST by Quix (RE UFO'S WILLFUL IGNORANCE IS NOT A WISE NOR VALID SUPPORT OF BLIND CLUELESSNESS)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 96 | View Replies]

To: Invincibly Ignorant
Though I do think I have been reasonably charitable toward YOU though not your perspectives that are so chronically vigorously and often viciously hostile to mine.
98 posted on 02/27/2007 11:47:02 AM PST by Quix (RE UFO'S WILLFUL IGNORANCE IS NOT A WISE NOR VALID SUPPORT OF BLIND CLUELESSNESS)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 96 | View Replies]

To: Quix; Invincibly Ignorant

Caution: discuss the issues all you want, but do not make it personal.


99 posted on 02/27/2007 11:55:10 AM PST by Religion Moderator
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 98 | View Replies]

To: Quix
As to the MJ12 DOCS . . . I just posted Stanton's responses above.

And here's a laydown by Philip Klass of the problems,

http://www.csicop.org/si/2000-05/majestic-12.html

plus a file on Wikipedia that goes into Buckhead-level details about the sticking points in the documents:

http://en.wikipedia.org/?title=Majestic_12

100 posted on 02/27/2007 11:56:01 AM PST by SpringheelJack
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 93 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-20 ... 61-8081-100101-120121-126 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson