Posted on 01/29/2007 6:45:51 AM PST by stfassisi
"It is in lethargy that the truly listless will find their calling."
The RCC has completely redefined the word blessed. The bible says I'm blessed because I believe in Jesus without having seen him. What you want is worship.
The verse is quite clear and as far as I know has not been altered in any Protestant translations. It says, "All generations shall call me blessed."
You and most Protestants refuse to do so and in your refusal you are violating scripture.
Well, it tells me that the Christian sect that most greatly venerates Mary has the favor of God. And which sect is THAT? Catholicism (and Orthodoxy).
SECT, RELIGIOUS. An organized body of dissenters from an established or older form of faith, commonly applied to all religious bodies where State churches are established. In countries where many churches are recognized by law, sects are generally identified as religious groups that lack much organization or structure and that are not likely to endure. (Etym. Latin sequi, to follow, secta, a following.)
*Since WHEN has the Church Jesus established become a SECT?
*You know, you have spent a lot of bandwith criticising the Church for never adopting as Doctrine your pet idea that Hell and Purgatory are the same identical place.
Theological physician, heal thyself. You have more than enough of your own errors to correct than to waste your time criticising the Church for its non errors.
I have no problem calling her blessed. Mary is blessed among women! She is The Virgin who carried the Lord.
But you want more, much more.
Wax.
Let's see:
Mary is the Mother of God.
Mary is Blessed.
You are Blessed.
Therefore, you the same as the Mother of God.
Right.
HUH?!
You speak so lightly of people who are Born Again. Maybe faith in Jesus means so little to you.
If you agree that she is blessed among women, do you therefore agree that she is the most blessed woman ever?
Why didn't you mention that you are actually looking at a wax mask, not real skin?
Thanks, AB
You can't read his/her mind. You wrote "what you want is worship". He has not asked for or requested "worship of Mary. He/she asked for respect and honor for the first Christ-bearer, Mary.
Because that isn't the case. There is a thin transparent layer of wax that covers the skin, but what is seen is skin. And that thin layer of wax would in no way stop or even slow the deterioration of her body.
"It would seem that the age of miracles left with the Apostles"
Baloney, K is still married to me after 45 years. That has to be one of the greatest miracles, almost up there with Lazarus.
"I have yet to meet a single, solitary person who can demonstrate first-hand evidence of same.
It would seem that the age of miracles left with the Apostles."
I have seen three. The first with me; the second with my youngest son and the third with the son of my secretary. The first two were through the intercessions of the Theotokos, the third through those of +Nektarios of Aegina. In the latter two their lives were saved.
I made no mistake. You are not following the argument closely enough to understand what I was saying.
Arguing Catholicism from the cathechism with a committed Protestant is pointless. They don't believe that, in fact, they believe it's laced with spiritual toxins, and so to stack up authoritieis of the Church, one on top of the other, does nothing but persuade them in their prejudices.
What they DO respect and hold dear, is Scripture, and it is from Scripture that one must begin with them. Now, in the here and now, with the miracles going on at Lourdes, there is no Scripture that talks about Marian shrines or miracles in the 20th Century, but Protestants THINK there is. They think, at first blush, that this is all those false signs that Jesus warned about. So, it is an easy step to simply say first there are no miracles, but second, if there are, they are demonic.
And that's what we saw appear on this thread.
The first argument, that there are no miracles at Lourdes, is a factual question. It is answered, completely, by referring to the thousands of medical files in the library of the International Medical Committee at Lourdes. Doctors study these healings and sceintifically records what happens. Many cases are found "not scientifically explicable" (science never classifies anything as a "miracle", because such a categorization is unknown to science). There are too many of them, and too many striking cases, for anyone to deny that Lourdes is a fountain of amazing cures. So, the healings are not false.
Which then takes us to the second prong: that they are demonic. One cannot address a Protestant's arguments by using words like Theotokis and bleeding out a river of ink of love and veneration of Mary. They don't share the sentiment and don't accept the authority. Their ASSUMPTION is that a place full of statues of MARY, where cures are indisputably taking place, has demonic power in it.
How does one address THAT? Not by saying that the Devil cannot do supernatural things! Jesus himself warns of false prophets performing "signs", and though Jesus poo-poos the argument that his OWN healings are the work of the Devil, asking if Satan can cast out Satan, that doesn't perforce mean (to a stubborn Protestant who hates the whole idea of a Shrine to Mary in the first place) that the healings at Lourdes, in such an "idolatrous" place, isn't just examples of demonic signs by healing.
Now, I myself would say that the Devil actually CAN'T heal anybody,, and rely on Jesus' say-so in that regard; but then, I rely on Jesus' say-so about Purgatory and Hell ("Gehenna", one and the same, to a Jew), and this is not going to persuade any Protestant (or Catholic) to change his view.
So the final resort is to Jesus' severe warning not to blaspheme the Holy Spirit. Now THAT has bite. It has bite because it is categorical, and says its an UNFORGIVEN sin. And what's more, once the mind accepts the healings of Lourdes, whatever one's doctrines there is the problem that there are REAL healings at Lourdes, and everybody knows it, and nobody knows FOR SURE why or how. To get up and use the sort of abusive rhetoric about idols and demons MIGHT be to damn the Holy Spirit as a demon because the Holy Spirit is doing something one does not like (if one's a Protestant and doesn't like the idea of God healing at Shrine to Mary, because it's so supportive of the Catholics!). I note that, although the Protestants here, some of whom are terrible Cold Warriors with the Catholic Church, will mock the Catholic image of Mary, but pull far, far back from committing the nuclear weapon and DEFINITIVELY condemning the healing power at Lourdes as that of a demon.
In other words, THEY GET IT. They SEE the risk, and won't charge into that breach and potentially commit a gross blasphemy. They THINK Lourdes is rubbish (even though they know it's not) because that's the easiest thing to think. They don't like it. But they won't take that stp of potentially damning the Holy Spirit as a demon. Which means that they are cautious and really believe their religion, and that's a good thingh.
You saw none of this, and thought me in error, because I didn't use Catholic speak to talk with those who reject it.
Please stop posting what you assume is in the minds of others.
"I agree, wholeheartedly."
I do too. Its just that 20 years ago I got sick of shoveling sand against the tide so I simply quit doing them. I've turned down the bench in part because I'll have nothing to do with divorce (and a number of other very wrong things) except, oddly enough, in accordance with what you have written. As an attorney I have that option. As a judge my only option, as Justice Scalia has pointed out, would be to resign.
Not at all, the bible doesn't say that.
Mary's faith is based on a signs, she saw, even conceived and carried, my faith is without signs. In that way I'm more blessed as Jesus said. My faith is more perfect because it is not based on seeing or being part of any signs.
John 20:29 Jesus said to him, “Thomas, because you have seen Me, you have believed. Blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.”
RC's want to say that Mary was picked because she was so blessed. The bible says she is Blessed because she got to be part of this sign not because of her sinless immaculate character. That is never stated or implied.
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