Posted on 01/24/2007 8:41:04 AM PST by Joseph DeMaistre
Don't forget universal life insurance and Miss Universal.
:>)
JESUS CHRIST WAS CRUCIFIED FOR OUR SINS, HE WAS RESURRECTED AND ASCENDED INTO HEAVEN WHERE HE LIVES AT THE RIGHT HAND OF GOD THE FATHER ALMIGHTY.
if I am delayed, you will know how people ought to conduct themselves in God's household, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and foundation of the truth.
"God's household" refers to the community of believers, which is the Church. Further "the pillar and foundation of the truth" refers to "the living God".
2 Thessalonians 2:15
So then, brothers, stand firm and hold to the teachings we passed on to you, whether by word of mouth or by letter.
The operative word is "we", as in Paul and the other Apostles. It does not follow that "we" includes the self-appointed RCC. It is God's providential goodness that led to God-fearing men to preserve the writings of the New Testament.
Matthew 18:17
If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church; and if he refuses to listen even to the church, treat him as you would a pagan or a tax collector.
The word "church" is used in the connotation of "local assembly", not in the universal sense, as in "Church of Christ". Other than that, I don't see how this supports your contention.
Your contention that these verses support the RCC triple play of Authority is simply misguided.
The idea that the RCC precedes Scripture in time is laughable. The Church of Christ established at that very special Pentecost certainly precedes New Testament Scriptures, and those same Scriptures document the activities and teachings of the Church that God would have us know and apply in our lives.
Finally, the idea of relying on God's written Word exclusively pre-dates the Church, having its roots in the reliance on the Torah, Writings, and Prophets by the Jews.
This is so unbelievably absurd. You're not arguing from reality.
Topic: The U.S. Constitution was purposely hidden from the citizenry because a copy of it wasn't made for every citizen. The reason being, the Founding Fathers were intent on imposing tyranny on the ignorant masses in South Carolina. Discuss.
It literally took a reformation to unlock the kingdom and to return the scriptures to the laity.
It wasn't a reformation. It was a divorce. A reformation implies a re-forming; something whole, in a different shape, not divided. And God hates divorce.
Did Paul say that his oral teachings, his preachings, tradition, the things that they talked about as they ate dinner last week could be used for Doctrine, ...... No. There is nothing else that Paul said could be used for Doctrine, ....., right? If there is nothing else, then it is Scripture [alone], or Scripture (alone), or sola Scriptura, right?
Paul is not saying that his preachings and oral teachings are not salvific, or the power of God unto salvation. He is saying that when it comes to "Doctrine, ....", Scripture and only Scripture is profitable for that purpose.
Thus the fact that no one believed in the bodily assumption of Mary for 400 years is all the more pertinent and informative since the entire Mediterranean region did not believe this had occurred.
Unlike Christ, whose bodily assumption into heaven was believed immediately and thoroughly as the pivotal proof of His divinity.
The operative word is "we", as in Paul and the other Apostles. It does not follow that "we" includes the self-appointed RCC. It is God's providential goodness that led to God-fearing men to preserve the writings of the New Testament.
If that's the case, it does not follow that the word "you" includes anyone but exactly who Paul was writing to, and not self-appointed Christians of the 21st century.
Amen and amen, Preach it, the world needs to hear it!
That I will have to look into and get back to you on.
However, it is pertinent to note that your choice of wording gives an incorrect impression. The Catholic belief is that the Blessed Virgin Mary was assumed into Heaven by God through His Power, it was not of Mary's doing. Whereas Jesus Ascended into Heaven of His Own Power.
That's right! All those heretics burnt at the stake for possessing Bibles had it coming! They had no business studying God's Word themselves! They should have known it was their priest's job to tell them what to believe. And when he did so, they should have shut up, and fallen in line.
That lousy Gutenberg fella really screwed things up. Why couldn't he have just kept his creativity to himself! If he hadn't come along, we'd all still be in one church!
See, I knew if we kept at it long enough that we could find something we agree on! :-)
That went over my head.. Im clueless as to what that means..
True. Paul as writing to whomever he was writing to. However, that doesn't mean that (a) those writings are always exclusive to the intended audience; (b) we can't learn from his advice to them. This is why it's so important to read Scripture in full context, and to apply the Word accordingly.
Nobody was ever burned, tortured or in any other way mistreated by the Catholic Church for possessing or reading the approved Latin Vulgate Bible AND THAT IS THE BIBLE THAT GUTENBERG PRINTED.
As I said earlier, if God was so interested in "reestablishing" sola scriptura, wouldn't it have made more sense to wait 80 years and have a Lutheran invent the printing press.
"Paul was not present at the Ascension of Jesus."
No, but he saw and had an audience with the risen Christ in person, while he was an enemy of Christ and his life was changrd from enemy to follower because of the meeting. He was an apostle born out of time and none of the other apostles have disputed his testimony to the meeting and in fact Peter affirms his writings as truth. While the actual witnesses gave Luke the account of the ascension, Paul confirms the ascension with his account of meeting the risen Christ and further testifies to the truth of what Stephen saw since he would be the only reliable witness to give testimony of it to Luke, since he was there.
Me too..
Acts1:9 - After he said this, he was taken up before their very eyes, and a cloud hid him from their sight.
How do you know Jesus ascended of His own power? Scripture simply says "he was taken up". It doesn't say that how.
I will concede that it was likely His power, as He was given all authority. But the point is that you're inferring and have no supporting evidence. The same argument goes for your position on Mary's supposed assumption.
I've seen better arguments from you. This one is pitiful.
Old Reggie,
The link to the original as well the author's name was the very first thing posted. That's how all FReepers post material from other sources.
Perhaps you can address the substance instead of falsely labeling a poster who posts irrefutable material.
That makes perfect sense that Peter's word verifies. He is, after all, the first pope. It still doesn't speak to Paul's point of view. For Paul to consciously assert that his writings were divinely inspired would be a scandalous arrogance unbecoming of a Christian.
not according to II Peter 3:15-16.
What were the other Scriptures he was referring to? Paul's letters were the earliest texts in circulation, other than the Old Testament.
Are you a mindreader. How do you know what he knew? were you sitting on his shoulder?
Apparently I'm the same mind reader who knew that Paul intended to say Scripture "alone". Were you sitting on his shoulder?
Your misconception has been corrected by Scripture. Your welcome.
Your argument is built upon error. Try again.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.