Posted on 01/16/2007 8:00:22 AM PST by cowboyfan88
Did you catch the irony of the thread posted to encourage people to read their Bibles instantly turning into a thread about which "doctrine of men" to keep?
The Ten Commandments have existed since Eden and sin has existed since Eden as well. There can be no sin without law as sin is lawlessness [1 John 3:4]. Sin is not imputed (does not apply) where there is no law [Romans 4:15]. Adam sinned! Death reigned from Adam to Moses. The wages of sin is death [Romans 6:23]. To make the statement that God's spiritual Law was not in effect prior to Sinai is plain silliness.
Also, Nehemiah makes it clear that that the "holy Sabbath" was not made known to His people until the giving of the commandments at mount Sinai(Nehemiah 9:13-14).
And on mount Sinai Thou hast come down, even to speak with them from the heavens, and Thou dost give to them right judgments, and true laws, good statutes and commands. And Thy holy sabbath, "Thou hast made known to them", and commands, and statutes, and law, Thou hast commanded for them, by the hand of Moses Thy servant.
Thy Holy Sabbath.......sounds like something that God had in effect for some time....and is reintroducing to his children who have lived without it in Egypt for hundreds of years....much of it in slavery. Scripture is very plain about The Lord introducing the Sabbath at creation.
Yup....doctrines of men....not God. Heaven forbid we honor God's Sabbaths and Feast days. It never ceases to amaze me how folks can get this simple concept so twisted.
Good evening folks.
Deuteronomy 5:3 is exactly right. That particular COVENANT, the one God made at Horeb, was not established with their fathers. A covenant is an agreement between two or more parties.
But God's laws existed as surely as God existed. If they didn't, then God destroyed Sodom and Gomorreah for no good reason.
The truth is that God's laws came into existence before man existed. They became applicable to humans as soon as man was created. That's why Adam and Eve were kicked out of the garden...because they sinned. They broke God's laws.
And the sabbath law is so important that the creation of the sabbath is outlined in holy scripture:
Gen 2:2 And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made.
Gen 2:3 And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.
The sabbath was the first holy thing created by God through Christ. Now it's the one thing that the vast majority of those who profess to believe Christ refuse to keep holy.
Sometimes it seems as if there's some effort underway by some demonic force to keep people from worshiping God in the fashion that he commanded. What could it be?
Yeah...it seems Satan knows where to concentrate his efforts!
I've always liked the comeback when stating an obvious Biblical truth...."All these other churches can't be wrong, can they?" The real answer should be...."they cannot all be right, either"!
Blessed Sabbath, my friends.
I do not know logically if it is impossible for God to ordain a woman as a pastor, but I do know logically, from the soul, that God, the Holy Spirit does give each believer spiritual gifts. The gift of pastor-teacher is a particular type of spiritual gift given to some believers by God the Holy SPirit. I also know that in Scripture, we do not have any examples of God the Holy SPirit gifting a woman with the spiritual gift of pastor-teacher. I know this purely from a soulish form of logic while seeking to remain faithful to God through faith in Christ in all things.
I also know that He has provided these spiritual gifts to further aid the body of Christ working with one another.
Accordingly, if I am seeking to find where God has placed the proper pastor-teahcer for myself, I first seek to find a believer who has been gifted in the spirit with the spiritual gift of pastor-teacher first, then also consider if that particular pastor-teacher is whom He wants me to study from at that time per His Providence.
In this search, I have encountered many who have formed a thinking process of how to create order out of disorder by their own thinking or methods independent of God. Interestingly, forming order out of chaos is the definition of the word, KOSMOS, in the greek or in the English translated as 'World'. Such thinking then is the very definition of a 'worldly' sin.
There are many believers who may have had faith at one time, or even unbelievers who were raised in the church, who associate morality and human good works with religion and continue to pursue a worldly perspective of their life.
Neither of these groups of people, though, are performing the ministry of the Holy Spirit by faith in Christ using the gift of pastor-teacher. They might have the physical acoutrements of how pastor-teachers behave, just as some evangelists pretend to have the spiritual gift of communicating to unbelievers, the spiritual gift of evanegelism (pastor-teacher as a communication spiritual gift for communication to believers, while evangelism is likewise a communication gift of the Holy Spirit given to communicate to unbelievers) is nevertheless only given to some people by God the Holy Spirit Himself.
Whenever I observe a female in the pulpit, I am cautious of indicators that she might be thinking from a worldly perspective vice working with a gift of the Holy SPirit specifically the spiritual gift of pastor teacher.
This is incredibly important, because the pastor-teacher is one of the few, if not only human we might encounter, supernaturally gifted to teach us about spirtual things as provided only by God.
If the person in the pulpit is merely reacting by worldly thinking, the last thing they understand or have the ability to teach are things of the spirit in a truthful fashion.
The consequences of learning from a person not so gifted is likely to be scarred soulish thinking, which detracts from our search for Him through faith in Christ.
***The Sabbath has been in force since creation....was not part of the "Mosaic" ceremonial law and has nothing to do with your quote. God's Sabbaths and Feast days are not the Law added 430 years later (verse 17). ***
NOT according to Moses.
Deu 5:1 ¶ And Moses called all Israel, and said unto them, Hear, O Israel, the statutes and judgments which I speak in your ears this day, that ye may learn them, and keep, and do them.
Deu 5:2 The LORD our God made a covenant with us in Horeb.
Deu 5:3 The LORD made not this covenant with our fathers, but with us, [even] us, who [are] all of us here alive this day.
NOT according to Moses....Ruy
O.K.! Let's examine the silliness of your statement. [Genesis 2:2-3] and God completeth by the seventh day His work which He hath made, and ceaseth by the seventh day from all His work which He hath made. And God blesseth the seventh day, and sanctifieth it, for in it He hath ceased from all His work which God had prepared for making.
Webster's....SANCTIFY! To set apart to a sacred purpose or to religious use. To impart or impute sacredness, inviolability, or respect to.
Now....we are told that God establishes the Sabbath in the second Chapter of the Bible. He establishes it for a sacred purpose. But, for the next few millennia he fails to tell Adam, Noah, Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Joseph and everyone in between. Hogwash! He just wanted it for himself....forgetting that he established it for man [Mark 2:27].
Because Abraham obeyed me and kept my requirements, my commands, my decrees and my laws. [Genesis 26:5] Are we to believe that maybe God is speaking here of "Overdue" fines at the library....maybe "Jaywalking" across the caravan route....maybe not! Just maybe God had already established his perfect spiritual laws for mankind earlier and they had been forgotten during the Egyptian affair????
It never ceases to amaze me that folks go to these lengths to try and destroy God's Holy Laws....and in particular, have us forget the one commandment that he asked us to remember!
*****O.K.! Let's examine the silliness of your statement. [Genesis 2:2-3] and God completeth by the seventh day His work which He hath made, and ceaseth by the seventh day from all His work which He hath made. And God blesseth the seventh day, and sanctifieth it, for in it He hath ceased from all His work which God had prepared for making. *******
Well, lets look at Moses' statement and see why God gave THEM, not US, the Sabbath.
Deu 5:12 ¶ Keep the sabbath day to sanctify it, as the LORD thy God hath commanded thee.
Deu 5:13 Six days thou shalt labour, and do all thy work:
Deu 5:14 But the seventh day [is] the sabbath of the LORD thy God: [in it] thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, nor thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thine ox, nor thine ass, nor any of thy cattle, nor thy stranger that [is] within thy gates; that thy manservant and thy maidservant may rest as well as thou.
Deu 5:15 And remember that thou wast a servant in the land of Egypt, and [that] the LORD thy GOD brought thee out thence through a mighty hand and by a stretched out arm: THEREFORE the LORD thy God commanded thee to keep the sabbath day.
Now, WHY did GOD command THEM to keep the SABBATH day?
Read Deut 5:15 again.
And again,
The LORD our God made a covenant with us in Horeb.
Deu 5:3 The LORD made not this covenant with our fathers, but with us, [even] us, who [are] all of us here alive this day.
That's all well and good, except that Jesus himself said there will be few that find the narrow way. So with so few people 'changed' it's not likely the culture will as a whole be redeemed. So even though I'm not entirely dispensational/premillenial etc. as you suggest in your second paragraph above, I tend toward that point of view. Still, we are supposed to "PUSH the rock" as that old internet story suggests:
Easy:
Exo 20:8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.
Exo 20:9 Six days shalt thou labor, and do all thy work:
Exo 20:10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:
Exo 20:11 For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.
That's why. Because the Lord, Jesus Christ, made the heaven, earth, sea and all that is in it and BLESSED and MADE HOLY the sabbath day.
Show me where the Lord, Jesus Christ, ever UNBLESSED or made UNHOLY the sabbath day.
***That's why. Because the Lord, Jesus Christ, made the heaven, earth, sea and all that is in it and BLESSED and MADE HOLY the sabbath day.
Show me where the Lord, Jesus Christ, ever UNBLESSED or made UNHOLY the sabbath day.****
Rom 14:2 For one believeth that he may eat all things: another, who is weak, eateth herbs.
Rom 14:3 Let not him that eateth despise him that eateth not; and let not him which eateth not judge him that eateth: for God hath received him.
Rom 14:4 Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand.
Rom 14:5 One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day [alike]. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.
Rom 14:6 He that regardeth the day, regardeth [it] unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard [it]. He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks.
Does God close his ears six days a week?
There's a few big problems with your theory here:
1. Paul never mentions "sabbath". If he were changing a scriptural commandment from the Lord Jesus Christ that had been observed by God's people for centuries, then I would think that he would have to pretty clear.
2. If Paul were saying that he had decided that the sabbath was no longer holy or blessed than it passed completely without controversy in scripture. Compare that to circumcision. 3. Paul never says that the sabbath is no longer holy or no longer blessed. Nor does Jesus Christ.
4. Paul believed in the sabbath:
Act 24:14 But this I confess unto thee, that after the way which they call heresy, so worship I the God of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the law and in the prophets:
The sabbath commandment is certainly written in the law and prophets and Paul certainly believed in it.
5. The chapter is about eating and drinking. It's probably dealing with issues such as which days to fast and whether or not one should eat meat that had been used in pagan sacrifices.
You're simply doing what every other person does who wishes to disobey Jesus Christ. You're interpreting scripture based upon your belief, rather than basing your belief upon scripture.
***You're simply doing what every other person does who wishes to disobey Jesus Christ. You're interpreting scripture based upon your belief, rather than basing your belief upon scripture.***
Since this thread is about the Christian's world view it is obvious that you have a Sabbath centered world view. As the bald teacher on Amazing Facts said years ago, "You are saved by grace IF you keep the Sabbath.
My world view is a Christ centered. As Paul said,
Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: [it is] the gift of God:
Eph 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
Eph 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
We, being in Christ, have entered into HIS rest so for us every day is a Sabbath.
Hbr 4:9 There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.
Hbr 4:10 For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God [did] from his.
Hbr 4:11 ¶ Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.
A world view that is Christ centered will reflect Christ. Christ created the sabbath and the holy days. Christ, when he incarnated, kept the sabbath and the holy days. Christ, when indwelling in his people, conforms his people to his holy presence. Our response to the indwelling of Christ is either obedience to his will...or disobedience. Many choose disobedience.
That's exactly what John means here:
1Jo 2:4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
We, being in Christ, have entered into HIS rest so for us every day is a Sabbath.
Hbr 4:9 There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.
Thank you for bringing up that verse.
Hbr 4:9 There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.
"Rest" is a word that is unique. It literally means "a keeping of sabbath" or "a sabbath keeping".
Here's how other translations render it:
Heb 4:9 So that there is still a Sabbath-keeping for the people of God. (Bible in Basic English)
Heb 4:9 There remains then a sabbatism to the people of God. (Darby)
Heb 4:9 As it is, however, there still remains for God's people a rest like God's resting on the seventh day.(Good News Bible)
Heb 4:9 Therefore, a time of rest and worship exists for God's people. (God's Word)
Heb 4:9 there doth remain, then, a sabbatic rest to the people of God, (Young's Literal Translation)
Heb 4:9 There remains therefore a Shabbat-keeping for the people of God.(MRC)
A proper understanding of the passage is that since people have not yet entered into the heavenly rest, our eternal inheritance, that there still remains a sabbath keeping for the people of God. The sabbath is a weekly reminder of heaven, a reminder of who our God is.
Yeah......good scripture. Makes you wonder why the author would even say such a thing.... if the early church was so bent on leading the people of God away from Sabbath observance.
This would have been an excellent time for verse 4 to say this: "For he has said somewhere of the seventh day thus, And God rested on the seventh day from all his works...but of course the day has now been changed to "THE FIRST DAY OF THE WEEK".
The silence of the scriptures regarding this "Roman" tradition of celebrating the "Invincible Day of the Sun"....instead of the Sabbath, is deafening!
Hbr 4:9 There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.
"Rest" is a word that is unique. It literally means "a keeping of sabbath" or "a sabbath keeping".
That is why I specificly mentioned this verse. (I know what it means) Our sabbath rest is in Christ so WE are in a perpetual Sabbath everyday because we are in CHRIST. WE have entered into HIS rest and have ceased from our own works as God did from his.
Hebrews 3:11 wV <5613> {SO} wmosa <3660> (5656) {I SWORE} en <1722> {IN} th <3588> orgh <3709> mou <3450> {MY WRATH,} ei <1487> {IF} eiseleusontai <1525> (5695) {THEY SHALL ENTER} eiV <1519> {INTO} thn <3588> katapausin <2663> mou <3450> {MY REST.}
Hebrews 4:9 ara <686> {THEN} apoleipetai <620> (5743) {REMAINS} sabbatismoV <4520> {A SABBATISM} tw <3588> {TO THE} law <2992> {PEOPLE} tou <3588> qeou <2316> {OF GOD.}
Then, why didn't the Holy Spirit inspire it to be written in both of these circumstances? The Greek language has no equivalent for Sabbath....they just took the Hebrew word Shabbot and ended it with "ismos" to make it Greek. Ismos.....by the way means.....keeping of, or doing....as a suffix. Katapausin means rest. Sabbatismo means keeping the seventh day.
***"Rest" is a word that is unique. It literally means "a keeping of sabbath" or "a sabbath keeping".***
Go ahead and rest on your sabbath which is your world view. I will keep my perpetual rest in Christ which is my world view.
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