4,000 Years of Christmas

Good News Magazine ^ | December 2003 | Gary Petty

[muawiyah]

Many of Armstrong's ideas were not original with him ~ he picked up plenty of his stuff as he went along. For the most part I don't think he realized that a lot of the conflict over Christmas came about during the period when the followers of Odin and Thor were under heavy pressure to adopt Christianity.

The compromises reached with the Northmen (and those even further North) have not worn well.

[DouglasKC]

Many of Armstrong's ideas were not original with him ~ he picked up plenty of his stuff as he went along.

I was never in the Worldwide Church of God, I happen to attend services with the United Church of God, which was started about 10 years after Armstrong died.

But I have done a lot of study about Herbert Armstrong and I agree with your statement. All of the doctrine that Armstrong espoused has been observed by various groups throughout history. Many of these beliefs are characterized as "Jewish" in practice, due mainly to anti-antisemitism in the early Roman church.

For those interested, the doctrine of United Church of God is at Fundmental Beliefs

Among these are:

We believe in one God, the Father, eternally existing, who is a Spirit, a personal Being of supreme intelligence, knowledge, love, justice, power and authority. He, through Jesus Christ, is the Creator of the heavens and the earth and all that is in them. He is the Source of life and the One for whom human life exists. We believe in one Lord, Jesus Christ of Nazareth, who is the Word and has eternally existed. We believe that He is the Messiah, the Christ, the divine Son of the living God, conceived of the Holy Spirit, born in the human flesh of the virgin Mary. We believe that it is by Him that God created all things and that without Him was not anything made that was made. We believe in the Holy Spirit, as the Spirit of God and of Christ Jesus. The Holy Spirit is the power of God and the Spirit of life eternal (2 Timothy 1:7; Ephesians 4:6; 1 Corinthians 8:6; John 1:1-4; Colossians 1:16).

We believe that the Father raised Jesus Christ from the dead after His body lay three days and three nights in the grave, thus making immortality possible for mortal man. He thereafter ascended into heaven, where He now sits at the right hand of God the Father as our High Priest and Advocate (1 Peter 1:17-21; 3:22; Matthew 12:40; 1 Corinthians 15:53; 2 Timothy 1:10; John 20:17; Hebrews 8:1; 12:2).

[DouglasKC]

And nowhere do we see them driving SUVs, but that doesn't mean it's un-Christian or wrong to have an SUV. However, from the middle of the first century we see both Luke and Paul discuss the significance of the birth of Jesus and that is in the New Testament and worthy of commemorating.

Unfortunately those who observe it do it at the expense of the very same holy days that Jesus Christ created, observed, and commanded his followers to observe:

Lev 23:2 Speak unto the children of Israel, and say unto them, Concerning the feasts of the LORD, which ye shall proclaim to be holy convocations, even these are my feasts.

Lev 23:4 These are the feasts of the LORD, even holy convocations, which ye shall proclaim in their seasons.

These feast days, God's feast days, Jesus's feast days, are listed in the rest of Leviticus 23.

[DouglasKC]

1Ki 12:32 Jeroboam instituted a feast in the eighth month on the fifteenth day of the month, like the feast which is in Judah, and he went up to the altar; thus he did in Bethel, sacrificing to the calves which he had made. And he stationed in Bethel the priests of the high places which he had made

Thank you for posting that scripture. It reminds me also of when Aaron created his own holy day:

Exo 32:4 And he received them at their hand, and fashioned it with a graving tool, after he had made it a molten calf: and they said, These be thy gods, O Israel, which brought thee up out of the land of Egypt.
Exo 32:5 And when Aaron saw it, he built an altar before it; and Aaron made proclamation, and said, Tomorrow is a feast to the LORD.

In both cases, they thought, they believed, that they were creating holy days that were acceptable to the one true God. So what if they added a couple of pagan elements? After all, they were worshiping the LORD. But of course we know that both times it turned out pretty ugly.

[DouglasKC]

Unfortunately, the Left's war on chr*stmas insulates it from honest evaluation by those who sincerely fear G-d. It's sort of like smoking--the hypocritical liberal war on tobacco has turned "the right to smoke" into a conservative cause celebre. The Left it seems can make conservatives take any position simply by taking the opposite one.

No doubt about it.

[Diego1618]

And nowhere do we see them driving SUVs, but that doesn't mean it's un-Christian or wrong to have an SUV.

Boy, oh boy! You got me there!

God ordained His Sabbaths and Holy days in Leviticus 23 to be observed forever "In all your generations". Our Saviour and the Apostles observed these same events as we are commanded to do also. You may search the scriptures from Leviticus to Revelation and will not find one reference by anyone telling us these Sabbaths and Holy Days have been done away with. These are the celebrations of The Lord.

However, from the middle of the first century we see both Luke and Paul discuss the significance of the birth of Jesus and that is in the New Testament and worthy of commemorating.

Sure...His birth was very significant....but the only Biblical examples of birthday celebrations are [Genesis 40:20]; [Matthew 14:6] and [Mark 6:21]. On both occasions it marked an execution for someone....a hanging in the Old and a beheading in the New! Nice examples!

If the Lord wanted the birth to be a remembrance, he and the Apostles would have lead by example. They didn't.

[Diego1618]

For those who care, the person that posted this thread rejects the Trinity, the bodily resurrection, and other essential doctrines that define the historic Christian faith.

So, tell me......how do you feel about Christmas?

[hosepipe]

[ For those who care, the person that posted this thread rejects the Trinity, the bodily resurrection, and other essential doctrines that define the historic Christian faith. You will find most of what he believes by googling "cults", "Armstrongism", or "Herbert W. Armstrong". ]

But Herb Armstrong was maybe not completely WRONG..
Anglo-Isrealism was Moonbatism of a high order..
But Christmas was pretty easy to research as wholly pagan..

Also Easter (Rabbit and Egg) is a strange development..
Obscene really.. Don't even talk about May Day..

But hey even the names of the days of the week are pagan Gods..
Even some of the names we name our children are pagan gods..
Where does it All stop and start?..

i.e. "the letter of the word kills, but the Spirit gives life"..

[xzins]

I became all things to all people that by all means I might win a few.

Even if December weren't the likely month of Jesus' conception, it wouldn't matter to me if someone walked into a pagan culture and took some of their concepts or traditions and used them to proclaim Christ.

Translators of the bible do it all the time.

"Putting eternal truths into the speech of everyday life reflects exactly the style of the Greek New Testament. The New Testament books were not written in the high-flown Asian style of the schoolmasters of the first and second centuries A.D. ; they were couched in the words of the common people, who were seeking the truth about the living, risen Christ. For those who sought life, the dead forms of outmoded grammatical styles were useless. So today, the missionary translator carries on that same tradition, giving people the Word of God in their own living language, though the idioms may seem strange to us. For example, the Uduks along the Ethiopian border speak of 'worry' and 'being troubled' as 'shivering in one's liver.' John 14:1 does not sound like English: 'Do not shiver in your livers; you believe in God, believe also in me.' But the Scriptures in Uduk are not being translated for us, but for Uduks who must understand the meaning of the gospel in terms of their lives, not ours." (Nida, op.cit., pp.23,24)

Patrick used the regard that the Irish pagans had for triads to his benefit in explaining the Trinity. Sounds like sound missionary outreach to me.

But some researcher hundreds of years later might say, "I've discovered that these triads were linked to pagan customs of the Irish. Therefore, you are following pagan customs when you utilize those same explanations."

Hogwash. They're participating in what was once a great AND SUCCESSFUL outreach in the name of Christ that turned people from those that were no gods at all unto the Living God.

[Professional Engineer]

ping

[Ruy Dias de Bivar]

***I was never in the Worldwide Church of God, I happen to attend services with the United Church of God, which was started about 10 years after Armstrong died. ***

The fathers have eaten sour grapes and the children's teeth are set on edge.

[kerryusama04]

Hey Chaplain,

What was the sin that the Israelites kept repeating over and over, even in the Sinai?

Hint:

H _ _ L _ _ _ Y

[xzins]

HILLARY???


I can see voting for her being sin; but I didn't think the witch was that old.

:>)

[Ruy Dias de Bivar]

***Yeah, I know. But I have to do it.**

A lump of coal to you. Anthracite or sub-bituminous.

After reading the article again, lignite.

[xzins]

Let's go with peat bog.

[kerryusama04]

Hilarious!

[DouglasKC]

Even if December weren't the likely month of Jesus' conception, it wouldn't matter to me if someone walked into a pagan culture and took some of their concepts or traditions and used them to proclaim Christ

It maybe wouldn't matter to you, but it matters to God. How is your significantly different than what Aaron did in Exodus 32 and what Jeroboam did in 1 Kings 12?

[xzins]

Do you think Christ was born?

[DouglasKC]

A lump of coal to you. Anthracite or sub-bituminous.
After reading the article again, lignite.

Like I haven't heard that before...:-)

[DouglasKC]

Do you think Christ was born?

The incarnation of the messiah, his birth, is chronicled in Luke. Clearly he was born.

But Jesus also created and observed specific holy days and told his followers to observe them. He did not tell his followers to commemorate his birth...and especially not at the expense of observing the days he asked us to observe.