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Three Reasons the Church’s Enemies Hate The Immaculate Conception
TFP ^ | 12.08.06 | Plinio Corrêa de Oliveira

Posted on 12/12/2006 10:51:32 PM PST by Coleus

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To: DungeonMaster; adiaireton8

Are There Many Christian Churches, or Is the True Church One?

An Interview with a Former Protestant Missionary

Peter Jackson—a former Protestant missionary and the translator of several books of Holy Scripture into the language of the Kogi people of Colombia, presently a student at Holy Trinity Spiritual Seminary—tells of his road to Orthodoxy. This is an Interview conducted with him on the pages of Pravoslavnaya Rus' [Orthodox Rus'] by R. Sholkov.

RS: Tell us a little bit about yourself.

PJ: I was an Evangelical Protestant from birth. My family attended Baptist and Presbyterian churches, and my parents were firm believers in [the concept of] the "invisible Church," i.e., [the belief] that there has never been a single church on earth which could call herself the one True Church; i.e., [a church] possessing the fulness of the Truth [Isstina]. All that was necessary was "to believe in Christ" and to attend that church which was "convenient." But I could never understand why there were so many different so-called churches, all of which considered themselves to be Bible-based?

When I was 12 years old, our community was visited by some preachers who were doing missionary work in Colombia and translating the Bible for the Indians. Because I had always been interested in languages, I was attracted to this work. I was astonished [to learn] that there are thousands of languages in the world into which the Bible has not yet been translated. I began to study Greek and Hebrew, in order to prepare myself for working in translating the Bible into such languages; and, at the university, I studied linguistics. Later, I joined the Protestant Mission of Bible translators (Wycliffe Bible Translators), in order to obtain a more detailed education.

When I was in training at Wycliffe, I became acquainted with my future wife, Styliana; now we have two sons, Nicholas and Benjamin. Styliana's parents were missionaries in Colombia, when she was yet 5 years old. They preached among the semi-savage Kogi tribe. Her parents were very happy to receive our (my wife's and mine) support in this missionary work. They had no time for translations; hence, after our arrival, I began to study both Spanish (which is spoken in Colombia) and the language of the Kogi people, and to translate the New Testament and the book of Genesis into their language. I was also forced to create an orthography for the Kogi, as they had never had a written language.

RS: How did you find out about Orthodoxy?

PJ: Being a missionary, I understood much. The Evangelicals repeat, over and over, that they all have the same identical faith; but each denomination has its own system of belief. Thus, I saw that the missionaries in Colombia pretended to sympathize with the Roman Catholics; but that behind their backs, they hated each other. Each denomination taught in accordance with its own belief-system, but would say, at the same time, that all Protestants nonetheless believe one and the same thing. I began to think deeply about this—how could we teach the tribes a single faith? when one group would become Baptists, another—Lutherans, a third—Pentecostals. I discovered that each Bible translator, willy-nilly, would translate it in accordance with his own denomination's world-view. They would say that this "will help the Indians to understand [the Bible] better." But which translation of the Bible was the correct one? How could we proclaim catholicity [sobornost']? Where was the Church in all this?

Likewise, while I was translating the Bible from the Greek, I noticed that its meaning was distinct from the English and Spanish translations. The Western teaching concerning predestination (Calvinism), which always used to trouble me, did not exist in the Greek Bible. But the English and Spanish translators, willy-nilly, would introduce slight changes into the meaning of the text, in order to imbue the texts with a western and even a Calvinist meaning. I likewise noticed that the other major Protestant doctrines simply could not be Biblical; chiliasm, for example, or the justification of believers by faith alone, although Protestants explain that these doctrines of theirs are allegedly Bible-based!

I began to study Church history, in order to find out precisely whence these heresies originated, and what the early Church actually taught. Protestants, on the other hand, teach that, after the Apostles, God ceased all activity, as it were, for fourteen centuries.

RS: And how did your spouse, who had grown up in a family of confirmed Protestants react to the road along which you had begun to travel?

PJ: She always supported me; even, as it were, nudged me along! When we were wed, we promised each other that we would always seek accord in all controversial issues that might arise. The Truth [Istina] is one, and we always discuss all questions until we reach an accord. What we cannot agree about is the teaching concerning the Church. Styliana was likewise brought up with the idea of an "invisible Church," but rejected it. She believed firmly that the Church must be somewhere. It was precisely she who inspired me to find out whether Calvinism has any basis in the Bible. When I discovered that the distorted concept of predestination existed only in the West, and that the Holy Fathers of the East teach about synergy (i.e., the mutually-reciprocal bond between the Divine and human wills), my wife asked me:

"Well, what about the Greek Church, then? Perhaps it contains the Truth [Istina]?"

My response was the following:

"Which Greek Church? Are you speaking of the Orthodox Church?"

I knew nothing about Orthodoxy, but I had been brought up with the understanding that Orthodoxy is as pernicious as [Roman] Catholicism—even worse, in fact. Thus, I expressed no further interest in the idea.

In the meantime, we were approaching ever closer to Orthodoxy! When we were invited to preach at meetings, I would speak about fasting and the doctrine of synergy. But people did not like what I had to say. I tried to be a proper Protestant and base my teachings upon the Bible, but people would say:

"We don't care that you can support your words with the Bible, this is still not our doctrine." It was apparent that, despite Protestantism's stand against Church Tradition, they had created their own tradition. We finally figured out that we were no longer Protestants. But we were also not [Roman] Catholics. So what were we? Where was our faith?

When we returned to America for vacation, my wife purchased a used book for 10 cents, entitled "The Orthodox Church." I immediately read it and was struck by lightning, as it were. I did not know about the seven Œcumenical Councils and about former apostasies. Now, I read about theosis and hesychasm, about St. Gregory Palamas and the Venerable Serafim of Sarov. This was a new world! But, in reality, it was not new, but distinctively unique [samobytnyi]; this was the Apostolic Faith. The Truth [Istina] had turned out to be there, where we had not expected to find It—but [where] It had always waited for us. We understood that Christ had truly built His Church, having said to Peter: "upon this rock I will build My Church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against her" (Matt. 16: 18). We believed in this as in a verity, even when our families and friends stood opposed to our beliefs.

RS: When did you become Orthodox?

PJ: Only after our return to Colombia did we decide to become Orthodox. But we could not find an Orthodox parish; there was only a tiny Greek community there, but without a priest. A year later, we finally met a priest from Venezuela, and he agreed to baptize us. A month later, he returned with a bishop from the Patriarchate of Constantinople, who invited us to move to Argentina, where he would have prepared me for the priesthood. But the newspapers at that time were filled with stories about the meetings between the Œcumenical Patriarch and the Pope of Rome.

RS: What did you know about ecumenism and modernism in "official Orthodoxy"?

PJ: We had already read about the participation of the "official Orthodox Churches" in the "World Council of Churches," but our Orthodox friends in America (all of them, from "officially-Orthodox Churches") sought to convince us that there is no false teaching or heresy involved in this; and that, by participating in the WCC, the Orthodox can enlighten the heterodox [inovernyie]. Nevertheless, this meeting between the Œcumenical Patriarch and the Pope of Rome troubled us; as did the news that the Antiochian Patriarchate had established de facto communion with the Monophysites. I wrote a letter about this to our bishop.

We were shocked by his reply. He railed abusively [vyrugal] at us for our doubting the Patriarch and said that he was sorry that we had been "deceived by fanatics," that is, by the True Orthodox. But we didn't even know a single True Orthodox person, and we had never heard of them. We were simply opposed to ecumenism, because it rejects the "uniqueness" [yedinstvennost'] of Holy Orthodoxy, and thereby contradicts the Œcumenical Councils. Worse yet, the bishop informed us that the Œcumenical Patriarch had not only wanted to enter into communion with the Monophysites and the [Roman] Catholics, but even with all the monotheistic faiths. This was no longer Orthodoxy! I have saved this letter, in order to show it to my "Orthodox" ecumenist-friends. Ecumenism-modernism is not simply a temporary tendency [veyaniye] that will soon vanish. It is the greatest peril of our times.

RS: How did you happen to meet True Orthodox Christians, and how did this affect your life?

PJ: I was already sending off letters to various Orthodox jurisdictions, in order that they might help me create an Orthodox parish in Colombia. Soon after our baptism, we received letters from Bishop Ilarion [Hilarion] and Fr. Luke; both of them were from ROCOR. Both the one and the other treated us with Christian love, and also suggested to us that we should find out about ecumenism in greater detail. Vladyka Ilarion did not say anything bad against that bishop from the PC, but stated that the Holy Spirit was guiding us onto the right path. When we had finished thoroughly studying [izuchili] the literature of ROCOR and the other True Orthodox jurisdictions, we saw clearly the distinction between their spirituality and the pseudo-spirituality [lzhedukhovnost'] of the "Orthodox" modernists. Thus, we decided to join ROCOR.

RS: Now you are studying at Holy Trinity Seminary. What are your plans for the future?

PJ: Despite the fact that there have long-since been Orthodox temples in Latin America, we were amazed by the fact that there is not a single one in Colombia, although Orthodox [Christians] do live there. Likewise, many of our friends and acquaintances in Colombia are interested in Orthodoxy. This is a [Roman] Catholic country, but the Protestants have drawn many to themselves. The majority of [Roman] Catholics would never have converted to Protestantism, had they not noticed that their church is moving ever-farther-away from the Truth [Istina]. People tell us that they want to find that original Faith which [once] existed among the ancient Saints. Thus, we think that Colombia, like all of Latin America, is a great harvest, which is awaiting its workers.

RS: What would you like to say to our non-Orthodox readers?

PJ: We are disappointed by the fact that at such a time as Orthodoxy is being reborn in Rus', many false teachings are appearing and polluting Russia. God is one, the Church is one, and the Truth [Istina] is one. I would advise the non-Orthodox readers to study thoroughly [izuchit'] the teaching of the Orthodox Church. Not a single other church or faith can call itself the true Church. Do not depart from Orthodoxy because you see some people in it of little faith. You must not abandon the Truth [Istina] on account of sinful man. Sinners are everywhere, but true Saints are only [to be found] in Orthodoxy. Do not be afraid to ask questions and to seek the Truth [Istina]. Then you will be able to say with us:

"We see the true Light; we have found the true Faith."

+ + +
But even if we, or an angel from heaven, should preach to you a gospel contrary to that which we preached to you, let him be accursed. As we have said before, so now I say again, If anyone is preaching to you a gospel contrary to that which you received, let him be accursed. (St. Paul [The Epistle to the Galatians, Ch. I, vv. 8-9])

Translated by G. Spruksts from the Russian text in PR, No. 8, 1997, pp. 11-12, 14.

http://www.orthodoxinfo.com/inquirers/jackson.aspx


581 posted on 12/15/2006 8:16:52 AM PST by kawaii
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To: kawaii; xzins

"Further even if all were written you've done squat to assert St Paul was intimately familiar with each and that the churches he was writing to had a collection of all of them."

Tradition says it's so.


582 posted on 12/15/2006 8:17:33 AM PST by blue-duncan
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To: blue-duncan

Neither history nor tradition suggest that churches in St Pauls time had anything like a copy of the New Testament.


583 posted on 12/15/2006 8:21:37 AM PST by kawaii
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To: DungeonMaster
Faith is heresy?

No, fideism is a heresy. Faith and fideism are not the same.

-A8

584 posted on 12/15/2006 8:22:24 AM PST by adiaireton8 ("There is no greater evil one can suffer than to hate reasonable discourse." - Plato, Phaedo 89d)
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To: blue-duncan; xzins; DungeonMaster

Which Came First: The Church or the New Testament?

by Fr. James Bernstein

As a Jewish convert to Christ via evangelical Protestantism, I naturally wanted to know God better through the reading of the Scriptures. In fact, it had been through reading the Gospels in the "forbidden book" called the New Testament, at age sixteen, that I had come to believe in Jesus Christ as the Son of God and our promised Messiah. In my early years as a Christian, much of my religious education came from private Bible reading. By the time I entered college, I had a pocket-sized version of the whole Bible that was my constant companion. I would commit favorite passages from the Scriptures to memory, and often quote them to myself in times of temptation-or to others as I sought to convince them of Christ. The Bible became for me-as it is to this day-the most important book in print. I can say from my heart with Saint Paul the Apostle, "All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness" (2 Timothy 3:16).

That's the good news!

The bad news is that often I would decide for myself what the Scriptures meant. For example, I became so enthusiastic about knowing Jesus as my close and personal friend that I thought my own awareness of Him was all I needed. So I would mark verses about Jesus with my yellow highlighter, but pass over passages concerning God the Father, or the Church, or baptism. I saw the Bible as a heavenly instruction manual. I didn't think I needed the Church, except as a good place to make friends or to leans more about the Bible so I could be a better do-it-yourself Christian. I came to think that I could build my life, and the Church, by the Book. I mean, I took sola scriptura ("only the Bible") seriously! Salvation history was clear to me: God sent His Son, together they sent the Holy Spirit, then came the New Testament to explain salvation, and finally the Church developed.

Close, maybe, but not close enough.

Let me hasten to say that the Bible is all God intends it to be. No problem with the Bible. The problem lay in the way I individualized it, subjecting it to my own personal interpretations-some not so bad, others not so good.

A STRUGGLE FOR UNDERSTANDING
It was not long after my conversion to Christianity that I found myself getting swept up in the tide of religious sectarianism, in which Christians would part ways over one issue after another. It seemed, for instance, that there were as many opinions on the Second Coming as there were people in the discussion. So we'd all appeal to the Scriptures. "I believe in the Bible. If it's not in the Bible I don't believe it," became my war cry. What I did not realize was that everyone else was saying the same thing! It was not the Bible, but each one's private interpretation of it, that became our ultimate authority. In an age which highly exalts independence of thought and self-reliance, I was becoming my own pope! The guidelines I used in interpreting Scripture seemed simple enough: When the plain sense of Scripture makes common sense, seek no other sense. I believed that those who were truly faithful and honest in following this principle would achieve Christian unity. To my surprise, this "common sense" approach led not to increased Christian clarity and unity, but rather to a spiritual free-for-all! Those who most strongly adhered to believing "only the Bible" tended to become the, most factious, divisive, and combative of Christians-perhaps unintentionally. In fact, it seemed to me that the more one held to the Bible as the only source of spiritual authority, the more factious and sectarian one became. We would even argue heatedly over verses on love! Within my circle of Bible-believing friends, I witnessed a mini-explosion of sects and schismatic movements, each claiming to be "true to the Bible" and each in bitter conflict with the others. Serious conflict arose over every issue imaginable: charismatic gifts, interpretation of prophecy, the proper way to worship, communion, Church government, discipleship, discipline in the Church, morality, accountability, evangelism, social action, the relationship of faith and works, the role of women, and ecumenism. The list is endless. In fact any issue at all could-and often did-cause Christians to part ways. The fruit of this sectarian spirit has been the creation of literally thousands of independent churches and denominations. As I myself became increasingly sectarian, my radicalism intensified, and I came to believe that all churches were unbiblical: to become a member of any church was to compromise the Faith. For me, "church" meant "the Bible, God, and me." This hostility towards the churches fit in well with my Jewish background. I naturally distrusted all churches because I felt they had betrayed the teachings of Christ by having participated in or passively ignored the persecution of the Jews throughout history. But the more sectarian I became-to the point of being obnoxious and antisocial-the more I began to realize that something was seriously wrong with my approach to Christianity. My spiritual life wasn't working. Clearly, my privately held beliefs in the Bible and what it taught were leading me away from love and community with my fellow Christians, and therefore away from Christ. As Saint John the Evangelist wrote, "He who does not love his brother whom he has seen, how can he love God whom he has not seen?" (1 John 4:20). This division and hostility were not what had drawn me to Christ. And I knew the answer was not to deny the Faith or reject the Scriptures. Something had to change. Maybe it was me. I turned to a study of the history of the Church and the New Testament, hoping to shed some light on what my attitude toward the Church and the Bible should be. The results were not at all what I expected.

THE BIBLE OF THE APOSTLES
My initial attitude was that whatever was good enough for the Apostles would be good enough for me. This is where I got my first surprise. As I mentioned previously, I knew that the Apostle Paul regarded Scripture as being inspired by God (2 Timothy 3:16). But I had always assumed that the "Scripture" spoken of in this passage was the whole Bible-both the Old and New Testaments. In reality, there was no "New Testament" when this statement was made. Even the Old Testament was still in the process of formulation, for the Jews did not decide upon a definitive list or canon of Old Testament books until after the rise of Christianity. As I studied further, I discovered that the early Christians used a Greek translation of the Old Testament called the Septuagint. This translation, which was begun in Alexandria, Egypt, in the third century B.C., contained an expanded canon which included a number of the so-called "deuterocanonical" (or "apocryphal") books. Although there was some initial debate over these books, they were eventually received by Christians into the Old Testament canon. In reaction to the rise of Christianity, the Jews narrowed their canons and eventually excluded the deuterocanonical books-although they still regarded them as sacred. The modern Jewish canon was not rigidly fixed until the third century A.D. Interestingly, it is this later version of the Jewish canon of the Old Testament, rather than the canon of early Christianity, that is followed by most modern Protestants today. When the Apostles lived and wrote, there was no New Testament and no finalized Old Testament. The concept of "Scripture" was much less well-defined than I had envisioned.

EARLY CHRISTIAN WRITINGS
The second big surprise came when I realized that the first complete listing of New Testament books as we have them today did not appear until over 300 years after the death and resurrection of Christ. (The first complete listing was given by St. Athanasius in his Paschal Letter in A.D. 367.) Imagine it! If the writing of the New Testament had been begun at the same time as the U.S. Constitution, we wouldn't see a final product until the year 2076! The four Gospels were written from thirty to sixty years after Jesus' death and resurrection. In the interim, the Church relied on oral tradition-the accounts of eyewitnesses-as well as scattered pre-gospel documents (such as those quoted in 1 Timothy 3:16 and 2 Timothy 2:11-13) and written tradition. Most churches only had parts of what was to become the New Testament. As the eyewitnesses of Christ's life and teachings began to die, the Apostles wrote as they were guided by the Holy Spirit, in order to preserve and solidify the scattered written and oral tradition. Because the Apostles expected Christ to return soon, it seems they did not have in mind that these gospel accounts and apostolic letters would in time be collected into a new Bible. During the first four centuries A.D. there was substantial disagreement over which books should be included in the canon of Scripture. The first person on record who tried to establish a New Testament canon was the second-century heretic, Marcion. He wanted the Church to reject its Jewish heritage, and therefore he dispensed with the Old Testament entirely. Marcion's canon included only one gospel, which he himself edited, and ten of Paul's epistles. Sad but true, the first attempted New Testament was heretical. Many scholars believe that it was partly in reaction to this distorted canon of Marcion that the early Church determined to create a clearly defined canon of its own. The destruction of Jerusalem in A.D. 70, the breakup of the Jewish-Christian community there, and the threatened loss of continuity in the oral tradition probably also contributed to the sense of the urgent need for the Church to standardize the list of books Christians could rely on. During this period of the canon's evolution, as previously noted, most churches had only a few, if any, of the apostolic writings available to them. The books of the Bible had to be painstakingly copied by hand, at great expense of time and effort. Also, because most people were illiterate, they could only be read by a privileged few. The exposure of most Christians to the Scriptures was confined to what they heard in the churches-the Law and Prophets, the Psalms, and some of the Apostles' memoirs. The persecution of Christians by the Roman Empire and the existence of many documents of non-apostolic origin further complicated the matter. This was my third surprise. Somehow I had naively envisioned every home and parish having a complete Old and New Testament from the very inception of the Church! It was difficult for me to imagine a church surviving and prospering without a complete New Testament. Yet unquestionably they did. This may have been my first clue that there was more to the total life of the Church than just the written Word.

THE GOSPEL ACCORDING TO WHOM?
Next, I was surprised to discover that many "gospels" besides those of the New Testament canon were circulating in the first and second centuries. These included the Gospel according to the Hebrews, the Gospel according to the Egyptians, and the Gospel according to Peter, to name just a few. The New Testament itself speaks of the existence of such accounts. Saint Luke's Gospel begins by saying, "Inasmuch as many [italics added] have taken in hand to set in order a narrative of those things which have been fulfilled among us ... it seemed good to me also ... to write to you an orderly account" (Luke 1:1, 3). At the time Luke wrote, Matthew and Mark were the only two canonical Gospels that had been written. In time, all but four Gospels were excluded from the New Testament canon. Yet in the early years of Christianity there was even a controversy over which of these four Gospels to use. Most of the Christians of Asia Minor used the Gospel of John rather than the Gospels of Matthew, Mark, and Luke. Based upon the Passion account contained in John, most Christians in Asia Minor celebrated Easter on a different day from those in Rome. Roman Christians resisted the Gospel of John and instead used the other Gospels. The Western Church for a time hesitated to use the Gospel of John because the Gnostic heretics made use of it along with their own "secret gospels." Another debate arose over the issue of whether there should be separate gospels or one single composite gospel account. In the second century, Tatian, who was Justin Martyr's student, published a single composite "harmonized" gospel called the Diatessaron. The Syrian Church used this composite gospel in the second, third, and fourth centuries; they did not accept all four Gospels until the fifth century. They also ignored for a time the Epistles of John, 2 Peter, and the Book of Revelation. To further complicate matters, the Church of Egypt, as reflected in the second-century New Testament canon of Clement of Alexandria, included the "gospels" of the Hebrews, the Egyptians, and Mattathias. In addition they held to be of apostolic origin the First Epistle of Clement (Bishop of Rome), the Epistle of Barnabas, the Preaching of Peter, the Revelation of Peter, the Didache, the Protevangelium of James, the Acts of John, the Acts of Paul, and The Shepherd of Hermas (which they held to be especially inspired). Irenaeus (second century), martyred Bishop of Lyons in Gaul, included the Revelation of Peter in his canon.

OTHER CONTROVERSIAL BOOKS
My favorite New Testament book, the Epistle to the Hebrews, was clearly excluded in the Western Church in a number of listings from the second, third, and fourth centuries. Primarily due to the influence of Augustine upon certain North African councils, the Epistle to the Hebrews was finally accepted in the West by the end of the fourth century. On the other hand, the Book of Revelation, also known as the Apocalypse, written by the Apostle John, was not accepted in the Eastern Church for several centuries. Among Eastern authorities who rejected this book were Dionysius of Alexandria (third century), Eusebius (third century), Cyril of Jerusalem (fourth century), the Council of Laodicea (fourth century), John Chrysostom (fourth century), Theodore of Mopsuesta (fourth century), and Theodoret (fifth century). In addition, the original Syriac and Armenian versions of the New Testament omitted this book. Many Greek New Testament manuscripts written before the ninth century do not contain the Apocalypse, and it is not used liturgically in the Eastern Church to this day. Athanasius supported the inclusion of the Apocalypse, and it is due primarily to his influence that it was eventually received into the New Testament canon in the East. The early Church actually seems to have made an internal compromise on the Apocalypse and Hebrews. The East would have excluded the Apocalypse from the canon, while the West would have done without Hebrews. Simply put, each side agreed to accept the disputed book of the other. Interestingly, the sixteenth-century father of the Protestant Reformation, Martin Luther, held that the New Testament books should be "graded" and that some were more inspired than others (that there is a canon within the canon). Luther gave secondary rank to Hebrews, James, Jude, and Revelation, placing them at the end of his translation of the New Testament. Imagine-the man who gave us sola scriptura assumed the authority to edit the written Word of God!

THE NEW TESTAMENT MATURES
I was particularly interested in finding the oldest legitimate list of New Testament books. Some believe that the Muratorian Canon is the oldest, dating from the late second century. This canon excludes Hebrews, James, and the two Epistles of Peter, but includes the Apocalypse of Peter and the Wisdom of Solomon. It is not until A.D. 200-about 170 years after the death and resurrection of Christ-that we first see the term "New Testament" used, by Tertullian. Origen, who lived in the third century, is often considered to be the first systematic theologian (though he was often systematically wrong). He questioned the authenticity of 2 Peter and 2 John. He also tells us, based on his extensive travels, that there were churches which refused to use 2 Timothy because the epistle speaks of a "secret" writing-the Book of Jannes and Jambres, derived from Jewish oral tradition (see 2 Timothy 3:8). The Book of Jude was also considered suspect by some because it includes a quotation from the apocryphal book, The Assumption of Moses, also derived from Jewish oral tradition (see Jude 9). Moving into the fourth century, I discovered that Eusebius, Bishop of Caesarea and the "Father of Church History," lists as disputed books James, Jude, 2 Peter, and 2 and 3 John. The Revelation of John he totally rejects. Codex Sinaiticus, the oldest complete New Testament manuscript we have today, was discovered in the Orthodox Christian monastery of Saint Catherine on Mount Sinai. It is dated as being from the fourth century and it contains all of the books we have in the modern New Testament, but also includes Barnabas and The Shepherd of Hermas. During the fourth century, Emperor Constantine was frustrated by the controversy between Christians and Arians concerning the divinity of Christ. Because the New Testament had not yet been clearly defined, he pressed for a clearer defining and closing of the New Testament canon, in order to help resolve the conflict and bring religious unity to his divided Empire. However, as late as the fifth century the Codex Alexandrinus included 1 and 2 Clement, indicating that the disputes over the canon were still not everywhere firmly resolved.

WHO DECIDED?
With the passage of time the Church discerned which writings were truly apostolic and which were not. It was a prolonged struggle, taking place over several centuries. As part of the process of discernment, the Church met together several times in council. These various Church councils confronted a variety of issues, among which was the canon of Scripture. It is important to note that the purpose of these councils was to discern and confirm what was already generally accepted within the Church at large. The councils did not legislate the canon so much as set forth what had become self-evident truth and practice within the churches of God. The councils sought to proclaim the common mind of the Church and to reflect the unanimity of faith, practice, and tradition as it already existed in the local churches represented. The councils provide us with specific records in which the Church spoke clearly and in unison as to what constitutes Scripture. Among the many councils that met during the first four centuries, two are particularly important in this context:
(1) The Council of Laodicea met in Asia Minor about A.D. 363. This is the first council which clearly listed the canonical books of the present Old and New Testaments, with the exception of the Apocalypse of Saint John. The Laodicean council stated that only the canonical books it listed should be read in church. Its decisions were widely accepted in the Eastern Church.
(2) The third Council of Carthage met in North Africa about A.D. 397. This council, attended by Augustine, provided a full list of the canonical books of both the Old and New Testaments. The twenty-seven books of the present-day New Testament were accepted as canonical. The council also held that these books should be read in the church as Divine Scripture to the exclusion of all others. This Council was widely accepted as authoritative in the West.

THE BUBBLE BURSTS
As I delved deeper into my study of the history of the New Testament, I saw my previous misconceptions being demolished one by one. I understood now what should have been obvious all along: that the New Testament consisted of twenty-seven separate documents which, while certainly inspired by God nothing could shake me in that conviction-had been written and compiled by human beings. It was also clear that this work had not been accomplished by individuals working in isolation, but by the collective effort of all Christians everywhere-the Body of Christ, the Church. This realization forced me to deal with two more issues that my earlier prejudices had led me to avoid: (1) the propriety and necessity of human involvement in the writing of Scripture; and (2) the authority of the Church.

HUMAN AND DIVINE
Deeply committed, like many evangelicals, to belief in the inspiration of Scripture, I had understood the New Testament to be God's Word only, and not man's. I supposed the Apostles were told by God exactly what to write, much as a secretary takes down what is being dictated, without providing any personal contribution. Ultimately, my understanding of the inspiration of Scripture was clarified by the teaching of the Church regarding the Person of Christ. The Incarnate Word of God, our Lord Jesus Christ, is not only God but also man. Christ is a single Person with two natures-divine and human. To de-emphasize Christ's humanity leads to heresy. The ancient Church taught that the Incarnate Word was fully human-in fact, as human as it is possible to be-and yet without sin. In His humanity, the Incarnate Word was born, grew, and matured into manhood. I came to realize that this view of the Incarnate Word of God, the Logos, Jesus Christ, paralleled the early Christian view of the written Word of God, the Bible. The written Word of God reflects not only the divine thought, but a human contribution as well. The Word of God conveys truth to us as written by men, conveying the thoughts, personalities, and even limitations and weaknesses of the writers-inspired by God, to be sure. This means that the human element in the Bible is not overwhelmed so as to be lost in the ocean of the divine. It became clearer to me that as Christ Himself was born, grew, and matured, so also did the written Word of God, the Bible. It did not come down whole-plop-from heaven, but was of human origin as well as divine. The Apostles did not merely inscribe the Scriptures as would a robot or a zombie, but freely cooperated with the will of God through the inspiration of the Holy Spirit.

A QUESTION OF AUTHORITY
The second issue I had to grapple with was even more difficult for me-the issue of Church authority. It was clear from my study that the Church had, in fact, determined which books composed the Scriptures; but still I wrestled mightily with the thought that the Church had been given this authority. Ultimately, it came down to a single issue. I already believed with all my heart that God spoke authoritatively through His written Word. The written Word of God is concrete and tangible. I can touch the Bible and read it. But for some strange reason, I was reluctant to believe the same things about the Body of Christ, the Church-that she was visible and tangible, located physically on earth in history. The Church to me was essentially "mystical" and intangible, not identifiable with any specific earthly assembly. This view permitted me to see each Christian as being a church unto himself. How convenient this is, especially when doctrinal or personal problems arise! Yet this view did not agree with the reality of what the Church was understood to be in the apostolic era. The New Testament is about real churches, not ethereal ones. Could I now accept the fact that God spoke authoritatively, not only through the Bible, but through His Church as well-the very Church which had produced, protected, and actively preserved the Scriptures I held so dear?

THE CHURCH OF THE NEW TESTAMENT
In the view of the earliest Christians, God spoke His Word not only to but through His Body, the Church. It was within His Body, the Church, that the Word was confirmed and established. Without question, the Scriptures were looked upon by early Christians as God's active revelation of Himself to the world. At the same time, the Church was understood as the household of God, "having been built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ Himself being the chief cornerstone, in whom the whole building, being fitted together, grows into a holy temple in the Lord" (Ephesians 2:20, 21). God has His Word, but He also has His Body. The New Testament says: (1) "Now you are the body of Christ, and members individually" (1 Corinthians 12:27; compare Romans 12:5). (2) "He [Christ] is the head of the body, the church" (Colossians 1:18). (3) "And He [the Father] put all things under His [the Son's] feet, and gave Him to be head overall things to the church, which is His body, the fullness of Him who fills all in all" (Ephesians 1:22, 23). In early times there was no organic separation between Bible and Church, as we so often find today. The Body without the Word is without message, but the Word without the Body is without foundation. As Paul writes, the Body is "the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth" (1 Timothy 3:15). The Church is the Living Body of the Incarnate Lord. The Apostle does not say that the New Testament is the pillar and ground of the truth. The Church is the pillar and foundation of the truth because the New Testament was built upon her life in God. In short, she wrote it! She is an integral part of the gospel message, and it is within the Church that the New Testament was written and preserved.

THE WORD OF GOD IN ORAL TRADITION
The Apostle Paul exhorts us, "Therefore, brethren, stand fast and hold the traditions which you were taught, whether by word or our epistle" (2 Thessalonians 2:15). This verse was one that I had not highlighted because it used two phrases I didn't like: "hold the traditions" and "by word [of mouth]." These two phrases conflicted with my understanding of biblical authority. But then I began to understand: the same God who speaks to us through His written Word, the Bible, spoke also through the Apostles of Christ as they taught and preached in person. The Scriptures themselves teach in this passage (and others) that this oral tradition is what we are to keep! Written and oral tradition are not in conflict, but are parts of one whole. This explains why the Fathers teach that he who does not have the Church as his Mother does not have God as his Father. In coming to this realization, I concluded that I had grossly overreacted in rejecting oral Holy Tradition. In my hostility toward Jewish oral tradition, which rejected Christ, I had rejected Christian oral Holy Tradition, which expresses the life of the Holy Spirit in the Church. And I had rejected the idea that this Tradition enables us properly and fully to understand the Bible. Let me illustrate this point with an experience I had recently. I decided to build a shed behind my house. In preparation, I studied a book on carpentry that has "everything" in it. It's full of pictures and diagrams, enough so that "even a kid could follow its instructions." It explains itself, I was told. But, simple as it claimed to be, the more I read it, the more questions I had and the more confused I became. Disgusted at not being able to understand something that seemed so simple, I came to the conclusion that the book needed interpretation. Without help, I just couldn't put it into practice. What I needed was someone with expertise who could explain the manual to me. Fortunately, I had a friend who was able to show me how the project should be completed. He knows because of oral tradition. An experienced carpenter taught him, and he in turn taught me. Written and oral tradition together got the job done.

WHICH CAME FIRST?
What confronted me at this point was the bottom line question: Which came first, the Church or the New Testament? I knew that the Incarnate Word of God, Jesus Christ, had called the Apostles, who in turn formed the nucleus of the Christian Church. I knew that the Eternal Word of God therefore preceded the Church and gave birth to the Church. When the Church heard the Incarnate Word of God and committed His Word to writing, she thereby participated with God in giving birth to the written Word, the New Testament. Thus it was the Church which gave birth to and preceded the New Testament. To the question, "Which came first, the Church or the New Testament?" the answer, both biblically and historically, is crystal clear. Someone might protest, "Does it really make any difference which came first? After all, the Bible contains everything that we need for salvation." The Bible is adequate for salvation in the sense that it contains the foundational material needed to establish us on the correct path. On the other hand, it is wrong to consider the Bible as being self-sufficient and self-interpreting. The Bible is meant to be read and understood by the illumination of God's Holy Spirit within the life of the Church. Did not the Lord Himself tell His disciples, just prior to His crucifixion, "When He, the Spirit of truth, has come, He will guide you into all truth; for He will not speak on His own authority, but whatever He hears He will speak; and He will tell you things to come" (John 16:13)? He also said, "I will build My church, and the gates of Hades shall not prevail against it" (Matthew 16:18). Our Lord did not leave us with only a book to guide us. He left us with His Church. The Holy Spirit within the Church teaches us, and His teaching complements Scripture. How foolish to believe that God's full illumination ceased after the New Testament books were written and did not resume until the Protestant Reformation in the sixteenth century, or-to take this argument to its logical conclusion-until the very moment when 1, myself, started reading the Bible. Either the Holy Spirit was in the Church throughout the centuries following the New Testament period, leading, teaching, and illuminating her in her understanding of the gospel message, or the Church has been left a spiritual orphan, with individual Christians independently interpreting-and often "authoritatively" teaching the same Scripture in radically different ways. Such chaos cannot be the will of God, "for God is not the author of confusion but of peace" (1 Corinthians 14:33).

A TIME TO DECIDE
At this point in my studies, I felt I had to make a decision. If the Church was not just a tangent or a sidelight to the Scripture, but rather an active participant in its development and preservation, then it was time to reconcile my differences with her and abandon my prejudices. Rather than trying to judge the Church according to my modern preconceptions about what the Bible was saying, I needed to humble myself and come into union with the Church that produced the New Testament, and let her guide me into a proper understanding of Holy Scripture. After carefully exploring various church bodies, I finally realized that, contrary to the beliefs of many modern Christians, the Church which produced the Bible is not dead. The Orthodox Church today has direct and clear historical continuity with the Church of the Apostles, and it preserves intact both the Scriptures and the Holy Tradition which enables us to interpret them properly. Once I understood this, I converted to Orthodoxy and began to experience the fullness of Christianity in a way I never had before. Though he may have coined the slogan, the fact is that Luther himself did not practice sola scriptura. If he had, he'd have tossed out the Creeds and spent less time writing commentaries. The phrase came about as a result of the reformers' struggles against the added human traditions of Romanism. Understandably, they wanted to be sure their faith was accurate according to New Testament standards. But to isolate the Scriptures from the Church, to deny 1500 years of history, is something the slogan sola scriptura and the Protestant Reformers-Luther, Calvin, and later Wesley-never intended to do. To those who try to stand dogmatically on sola scriptura, in the process rejecting the Church which not only produced the New Testament, but also, through the guidance of the Holy Spirit, identified those books which compose the New Testament, I would say this: Study the history of the early Church and the development of the New Testament canon. Use source documents where possible. (It is amazing how some of the most "conservative" Bible scholars of the evangelical community turn into cynical and rationalistic liberals when discussing early Church history!) Examine for yourself what happened to God's people after the twenty-eighth chapter of the Book of Acts. You will find a list of helpful sources at the end of this booklet. If you examine the data and look with objectivity at what occurred in those early days, I think you will discover what I discovered. The life and work of God's Church did not grind to a halt after the first century and start up again in the sixteenth. If it had, we would not possess the New Testament books which are so dear to every Christian believer. The separation of Church and Bible which is so prevalent in much of today's Christian world is a modern phenomenon. Early Christians made no such artificial distinctions. Once you have examined the data, I would encourage you to find out more about the historic Church which produced the New Testament, preserved it, and selected those books which would be part of its canon. Every Christian owes it to himself or herself to discover the Orthodox Christian Church and to understand its vital role in proclaiming God's Word to our own generation.

Suggested Reading
Bruce, F.F., The Canon of Scripture, Downers Grove, Illinois: InterVarsity Press, 1988.

Eusebius, Ecclesiastical History, Grand Rapids, Michigan: Baker Book House, 1990.

Farmer, William R. & Farkasfalvy, Denis, The Formation of the New Testament Canon: An Ecumenical Approach, New York: Paulist Press, 1983.

Gamble, Harry Y., The New Testament Canon: Its Making and Meaning, Philadelphia: Fortress Press, 1985.

Kesich, Veselin, The Gospel Image of Christ, Crestwood, New York: St. Vladimir's Seminary Press, 1992.

Metzger, Bruce Manning, The Canon of the New Testament: Its Origin, Development, and Significance, New York: Oxford University Press, 1987.

Meyendorff, John, Living Tradition, Crestwood, New York: St. Vladimir's Seminary Press, 1978. Histories of Christianity generally give some information on the formation of the Canon, although they are not likely to discuss its relevance to the authority and interpretation of Scripture.


http://www.orthodoxinfo.com/inquirers/whichcamefirst.aspx


585 posted on 12/15/2006 8:23:40 AM PST by kawaii
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To: DungeonMaster

Fideism

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

In Christian theology, fideism is any of several belief systems which hold, on various grounds, that reason is irrelevant to religious faith. According to some versions of fideism, reason is the antithesis of faith; according to others, faith is prior to or beyond reason, and therefore is unable to be proven or disproven by it.

The word is also occasionally used to refer to the Protestant belief that Christians are saved by faith alone: for which see sol? fide. This position is sometimes called solifidianism.


586 posted on 12/15/2006 8:25:08 AM PST by kawaii
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To: kawaii; xzins; DungeonMaster

Well, that's one tradition, my tradition is different.


587 posted on 12/15/2006 8:32:31 AM PST by blue-duncan
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To: Dr. Eckleburg
If Mary were the mother of God, then that means someone or something preceded God.

It's a simple logical exercise. Mary was Jesus's mother. Jesus was God the Son. Therefore it follows that Mary was the mother of God (the Son).
588 posted on 12/15/2006 8:37:42 AM PST by Conservative til I die
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To: kawaii

It's a given that fundies believe the bible is the inspired Word of God. I was talking to an Episcopalian guy that didn't believe the bible was without error. He did what you are doing and considered the natural process of translation and book selection and concluded it was untrustworthy. This nullifies what the bible says in the same way that Pharisees made the commandments of God of no effect with their traditions.


589 posted on 12/15/2006 8:41:18 AM PST by DungeonMaster (Acts 17:11 also known as sola scriptura.)
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To: blue-duncan; P-Marlowe; Dr. Eckleburg

I always seem to get the same message from the anti-scripture postings:

We did the research to determine which was legitimate, apostolic scriptures, so therefore, we get to supercede them.

That's a bit like a physicist saying, "We did the research to spell out the law of gravity, so therefore, we get to ignore it."


590 posted on 12/15/2006 8:41:52 AM PST by xzins (Retired Army Chaplain and proud of it! Supporting our troops means praying for them to WIN!)
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To: xzins
So, you are saying that the Son is the Father???

Where was this claimed?
591 posted on 12/15/2006 8:41:54 AM PST by Conservative til I die
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To: blue-duncan

That's why there's a difference between the traditions of men and Holy Tradition, which is the Tradition of the Church Christ established, and send the Holy Ghost, the Spirit of Truth, the Comforter to guide.


592 posted on 12/15/2006 8:42:14 AM PST by kawaii
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To: DungeonMaster

If one beleives the Bible to be untrue then they beleive Christ is a liar and did not send the Holy Spirit. If they think that they're not Christians.


593 posted on 12/15/2006 8:44:06 AM PST by kawaii
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To: xzins
If the acts are the same, or substantially the same, then the burden is on the actor to demonstrate the distinction (s)he sees.

Well, the acts are not the same or substantially the same, so that puts an end to your argument and the Thesarus's. There's a world of difference between asking a saint to pray for you and take up your cause with Jesus and worshipping Jesus as the Divine Son of God.
594 posted on 12/15/2006 8:44:26 AM PST by Conservative til I die
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To: kawaii

Thanks for posting the definition. It sure sounds like someone has decided faith is heresy. What strikes me the most is the idea that it is heresy to believe that salvation is by faith alone. Salvation is by faith alone.


595 posted on 12/15/2006 8:45:16 AM PST by DungeonMaster (Acts 17:11 also known as sola scriptura.)
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To: kawaii

I guess I realise this because I know that Catholics don't have the same definition for salvation that fundies have.


596 posted on 12/15/2006 8:46:30 AM PST by DungeonMaster (Acts 17:11 also known as sola scriptura.)
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To: DungeonMaster

Beleiving faith alone can save you is heresy. The Bible tells us that faith without works is dead, and that you but be baptised and beleive (have faith) to be saved.


597 posted on 12/15/2006 8:46:51 AM PST by kawaii
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To: kawaii
If one beleives the Bible to be untrue then they beleive Christ is a liar and did not send the Holy Spirit. If they think that they're not Christians.

I have a hugh problem with his position too.

598 posted on 12/15/2006 8:47:33 AM PST by DungeonMaster (Acts 17:11 also known as sola scriptura.)
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To: DungeonMaster
"Sola scriptura becomes "canon" fodder as soon as the Catholic asks the Protestant to explain how the books of the Bible got into the Bible.

I see you have your marching orders.


Actually it's a perfect question that puts the burden of proof on a sola scriptura believer.

Sola Scripturists say that everything necessary for the faith is found in the Bible, and everything not found in the Bible is irrelevant at best, false at worst.

I think the Canon of the Bible is of the utmost importance, since how can you follow Scripture without having Scriptures!?!

So the question stands, where in the Bible does it say which books are inspired?
599 posted on 12/15/2006 8:48:12 AM PST by Conservative til I die
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To: kawaii
Beleiving faith alone can save you is heresy. The Bible tells us that faith without works is dead, and that you but be baptised and beleive (have faith) to be saved.

That's not the same as saying that faith alone doesn't save you. The bible doesn't say you have to be baptised to be saved.

600 posted on 12/15/2006 8:48:59 AM PST by DungeonMaster (Acts 17:11 also known as sola scriptura.)
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