Posted on 12/04/2006 7:52:47 PM PST by Pyro7480
We have been judged. We now stand acquitted before God by the obedience and justification of Jesus Christ upon the cross.
How you miss this after reading Scripture is one of life's greatest puzzles.
" but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God." -- 1 Corinthians 6:11
"And now I stand and am judged for the hope of the promise made of God, unto our fathers" -- Acts 26:6
Faithful is he that calleth you, who also will do it." -- 1 Thessalonians 5:23-24"And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.
At our death, God will immediately embrace us because our salvation has been accomplished by Christ alone. And all our works will be judged according to Christ's work within us because "faithful is he that calleth you, who also will do it."
"Don't misunderstand me."
See, see, you're second guessing yourself already. Let me send you a piece of my Kathryn Kuhlman annointed hanky guaranteed to ward off unsightly second thoughts and purge the urge to step back. It's an ecumenically approved amulet, good even while watching TBN.
The Christian life is important....yes?
Since you watch TBN, maybe you know: Is the prayer cloth still available? I was supposed to get one with my CD "Blessed Assurance" and I sent my $39.95 love offering and everything.
;)
"God bless you, you bunch of sloppy Calvinists."
To be really accurate, I am only one person, although my wife doubts that at times, so what you should say is "God bless you, you sloppy Calvinist." And I really do appreciate the blessing for being one.
The difference, and it is definitive, is that our friends are alive and benefit themselves from their prayers for us, whereas the various intermediaries and dead saints are all stone cold compost.
Deuteronomy 18:11, 1 Samuel 28:1-25, 1 Chronicles 10:13-14 and Isaiah 8:19 all speak against praying to the dead.
Repent of it.
For such an high priest became us, who is holy, harmless, undefiled, separate from sinners, and made higher than the heavens; Who needeth not daily, as those high priests, to offer up sacrifice, first for his own sins, and then for the people's: for this he did once, when he offered up himself." -- Hebrews 7:25-27"Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them.
The Christian life is everything.
"I was supposed to get one with my CD "Blessed Assurance" and I sent my $39.95 love offering and everything."
Did you send it in cash before midnight November 30, 2005?
"The Christian life is important....yes?"
Absolutely!
AAARG! I didn't read the fine print.
You're ahead of me. I only found them today (but I resolve to find them again.) 8~)
"...whereas the various intermediaries and dead saints are all stone cold compost."
Its a shame you believe that. By the way, I thought you and I had agreed not to ping each other. Perhaps I was mistaken. Please in the future refrain from contacting me. You alone, of all the Calvinists here, I have nothing to say to nor do I care to hear from you.
What a rude and uncharitable comment. You reveal only yourself by it.
Surely a single post couldn't be that upsetting to you.
May I call you Shirley?
Galatians 2:16 is plainly speaking of the works of the law and not generically of works. We agree: circumcision or other works of obligation, confessional or otherwise are not salvific.
Romans 4:2. Here we have to explain scripture with scripture and look at how St. Paul and St. James describe circumcision of Abraham and the sacrifice of Isaac:
29 Is he the God of the Jews only? Is he not also of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also. 30 For it is one God, that justifieth circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith. 31 Do we, then, destroy the law through faith? God forbid: but we establish the law.1 What shall we say then that Abraham hath found, who is our father according to the flesh. 2 For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory, but not before God. 3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was reputed to him unto justice. 4 Now to him that worketh, the reward is not reckoned according to grace, but according to debt. 5 But to him that worketh not, yet believeth in him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is reputed to justice, according to the purpose of the grace of God.
(Romans 3, 4)
21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, offering up Isaac his son upon the altar? 22 Seest thou, that faith did co-operate with his works; and by works faith was made perfect? 23 And the scripture was fulfilled, saying: Abraham believed God, and it was reputed to him to justice, and he was called the friend of God. 24 Do you see that by works a man is justified; and not by faith only?
(James 2)
First note that the context in Romans (and in Galatians) is Christian unity through faith, the unity threatened by circumcision. St. Paul says that Abraham had faith and was circumcised, while a Gentile would have faith but not Jewish law, and that would be reputed to justice. St. James talks of the work of offering up Isaac, and concludes that had his faith been without the cooperation by works, it would not have been perfect faith. So the two apostles do not contradict one another, none of them is teaching salvation by faith alone, and St. James rejects it forcefully.
Romans 3:27 is a marginal reference to "law of works" in relation to boasting. A more to our point statement is in Ephesians 8:8 which you cite next. That clearly speaks to works done for social reward ("boast"). Again, we agree. Whenever works have a temporal reward as motivation, they are not salvific.
2 Timothy 1:9 speaks of divine calling. We agree, God calls whoever He wishes to call. We cannot work up that call. We are discussing the role of works after one has been called to baptism, not before.
2 Timothy 3:16f supports what I say: the Holy Scripture furnishes one to good works. If works were not salvific perhaps "furnished in faith" would have been more apporpriate phrasing, -- but it is not there.
Titus 1:16 simply says that the reprobate, too, are judged by their works.
John 15:16 says that we the chosen ones should bring forth fruit. Indeed fruit is a metaphore for works. It does not say, what you need it to say: it does not say that works is a passive product of faith. Rather, it urges the faithful to do sometihng, just like every other exhortation to good works in the scripture does.
Finally, Matthew 7:14f speaks of fruit, good or evil, coming from trees, also good or evil. This can serve as a prooftext for the predestination of the reprobate, another Calvinist error (it does not prove it because grace tranforms us). It has nothing to do with how our good works relate to faith.
St. Paul, St. James, the Catholic Church, the Orthodox Church, and the faith of our fathers are all in perfect harmony. Works of temporal reward and works of obligation are not salvific. Works cooperating with faith are very much salvific. Nowhere does the scripture say that works are a mere byproduct of faith. This is the matter of plain reading of the scripture, something Protestantism has a big pretense of doing.
I'm sorry I should have posted Scripture. I was just restating off the top of my head.
John 10:27-29 "My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow me. And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand. My Father, who has given them to me is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of My Father's hand."
This is blessed assurance.
Are any of you ordained clergy? Confirmed laity?
And this is the sad bottom line in all of this.
When did Bishop Menatios live, by the way?
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