Posted on 12/04/2006 7:52:47 PM PST by Pyro7480
"Peter was not the Rock upon which Christ was to build His church. Peter's confession was."
This is the position of Orthodoxy and indeed even of several of the particular churches which are in communion with the Bishop of Rome. This is not to say that Orthodoxy does not recognize that, all things theological being equal, the Bishop of Rome is not the first among the equal bishops of The Church as +Peter was among the apostles.
Why would Orthodoxy think that about Rome? Real question.
"God doesn't ask permission.
Behold I stand at the door and knock; if anyone opens I will come in and sup with him and he with me." (Revelations 3:20)
There is a question in there? There is an asking of permission. No. There is a statement. Just like Whosoever will may come. But who will? Nobody, unless God draws them. Next."
"The Lord is always knocking at the doors of our hearts, that we may open to Him, that He may enter in and rest in Our souls, and we may wash and anoint His feet, and He may make His abode with us. The Lord in that passage reproaches the man who did not wash His feet; and again He says elsewhere, Behold, I stand at the door and knock, if any man will open unto Me, I shall come in unto him. To this end He endured to suffer many things, giving His own body unto death, and purchasing us out of bondage, in order that He might come to our soul and make His abode with it....His food and His drink, His clothing and shelter and rest is in our souls. Therefore He is always knocking, desiring to enter into us. Let us then receive Him, and bring Him within ourselves; because He is our food and our drink and our eternal life, and every soul that has not now received Him within and given Him rest, or rather found rest in Him, has no inheritance in the kingdom of heaven with the saints, and cannot enter into the heavenly city. But Thou, Lord Jesus Christ, bring us thereunto, glorifying Thy name, with the Father and the Holy Spirit, for ever. Amen" +Macarius the Great
Yes, the gay community just loves the Catholic Church. /s.
Actually, a lot of them DO:
National Association of Catholic Diocesan Lesbian and Gay Ministries.
I'm not saying the RCC officially sanctions any of these groups, but there are TONS of them. This list doesn't even scratch the surface. Out of curiosity, I did an identical search for Southern Baptist gay organizations and came up with zip, zero, nada of them. I thought that was pretty interesting.
"Ο πρώτος μεταξύ των ίσων"
"Why would Orthodoxy think that about Rome? Real question." Because the canons of the Ecumenical Councils establish that the Bishop of Rome is the first in dignity among the Patriarchs of The Church.
I see your three links and raise you a million..
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&safe=off&client=safari&rls=en&q=gay+activist+protests+catholic&btnG=Search
Rainbow Baptist
http://www.rainbowbaptists.org/abconcerned.htm
FWIW:
"While many Orthodox theologians would say that not only the Bishop of Rome but all bishops are successors of Peter, yet most of them admit that the Bishop of Rome is Peter's successor in a special sense... the see of Rome also owed its primacy to the positon occupied by the city of Rome in the empire.. When hard pressed in the struggle against heretics, people felt that they could turn with confidence to the Pope
"
Timothy Ware "The Orthodox Church"
;-)
And thanks for your answer. It's been so long since anyone I was talking to cares about the canons of the Ecumenical Councils! I have to start all over again. It's like I'm a newbie!
I promised myself I'd read three books by the Pope - who writes like a German, you could use his sentences for ballast -- and then Damascene, and then I'm going to have some FUN! Should be summer by then.
First, Kolo. As I stated before, God is not asking permission of anyone in that verse in Revelation 3. Second, there is a context to that verse. The context is the church of Laodicea. The verse preceding it reads"As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent." So again, you have Christ speaking to His church at Laodicea that was backslidden, lukewarm . They have cut off their fellowship with Christ because of being neither cold nor hot for him but lukewarm. He is telling them, if they repent that fellowship will be restored. Two verses later it reads" He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches."
The Audience is not the lost. The audience is the church. Christ is not asking permission. Christ is telling the church what will happen if they repent.
The verse is not one of evangelism, but of discipleship.
But His action depends on their action. IF they repent THEN he will come in and sup with them. It may not exactly be permission but it's not how a potter addresses His clay either, is it? What's the distinction?
"Rainbow Baptist"
They are part of the American Baptist Church from which Evangelical, Fundamentalist and Independant Baptists withdrew fellowship during the early part of last century because of the modernist and liberal takeover of the denomination, much like your church did by excommunicating dissident sects.
Actually, I throw up on Merry Go Rounds (LOL). I've been around and around with some of these folks and I'd rather find a friendlier bunch.
Ah, so they can't take communion then.
:)
But yeah, the situations similar. Gays don't like fundamental churches and Catholic Churches.
Found this, may be of interest.
SBC's Christian Life Commission publishes a pamphlet called Critical Issues: Homosexuality. It states that:
The many Bible passages that are commonly quoted as condemning homosexuality are valid.
People can change their sexual orientation.
Homosexual orientation is not "caused" by hormonal imbalance or genetic factors, but by an unhealthy relationship with one's parents.
People cannot be pigeonholed into two classifications: homosexual or heterosexual. A continuum exists which includes various degrees of bisexuality.
Although homosexual activity is a sin, it is not the unpardonable sin, or the most terrible of sins.
Homosexuals can only lead moral lives by remaining celibate....
I prefer the roller coaster. You may have your ups and downs, but at least you are moving in a straight line and getting somewhere!
That is also the teaching of the Orthodox Church and is based on "And inasmuch as it is appointed for men to die once and after this comes judgment..." [Heb 9:27]
The essence of the particular jugdment is the same as that of the Final (Terrible) Judgment. After the particular judgment, the sould is said to know if it is destined to heaven or to hell, a "foretaste" of what is to come.
You will be judged immediately upon your death, and based on what you have done with your talents, and what was in your heart. God gives us blessings; some people use them to bless others; other people use them to do evil with them. The meek, the pure in heart, the merciful, the suffering, etc., i.e. those who have attained the likness of Christ, will find their rewards in heaven.
That's right.
I think when Contemplatives and Orthodox speak of "the Spirit" quite often we mean more accurately our 'conscious contact with the divine' or our current state of grace, lack thereof, or our current spiritual condition
I don't know if you are Orthodox or not, but your mindset is.
This can be a state of being or consciousness that we are aware of, and it may also include an almost bookkeeping accounting of our unrepented sins and the purity of our heart
You said it again. :)
Spiritual growth then is a more, I believe, tangible or intuitively known state of being or intention. It is, in large measure the condition of our heart - which is the perceptual organ, eye, that is used to know God. And through askesis and God's grace this develops over time into more constant conscious contact with God
Look inside!
This is different I believe than how I see others talk of the Holy Spirit
This is Orthodoxy.
And the Popes in the first millennium professed the same Orthodox Faith we profess to this day, and many of them are Orthodox Saints.
Heresies reached, and most often sprang out of Constantinople, with the Imperial Patriarch as their chief architect. Satan managed to deceive the second only to the Pope, but the Popes never wavered (save for one possibly). We Orthodox have a lot to thank the Bishops of Rome.
For, such greats as +John Chrysostom and +Maximos the Confessor found refuge from heretical Patriarchs of Constantinople, and warm and brotherly welcome and encouragement among the Popes of Rome.
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