Posted on 12/04/2006 7:52:47 PM PST by Pyro7480
lol. Where in God's creation does this foolishness come from?
In this way, prayer to God, addressed via the holy God-pleasers, stands nearer, closer, to God, and it throws a bridge over the abyss that exists between God and sinners, it humbles the soul of the sinner himself and invokes upon him the good pleasure of God.
This is so unScriptural as to be blasphemous. "The holy God-pleasers"???
What is difficult to understand about the fact...
"For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus" -- 1 Timothy 2:5
Considering the lack of detail about Mary in Scripture, one can not point to times when she sinned. However, I find some of her behavior interesting in Scripture. First, when Jesus was Left behind in Jerusalem and she sorta rebukes Jesus "Son, why hast thou thus dealt with us? behold, thy father and I have sought thee sorrowing."
Luke 2:33 speaks of Simeon's blessing and then adds "And Joseph and his mother marvelled at those things which were spoken of him."
Jesus's comment in Luke 8:21
And he answered and said unto them, My mother and my brethren are these which hear the word of God, and do it. (like Mary and his brothers weren't hearing and doing the word of God at the time - they weren't yet believers).
&
Jesus's (perhaps gentle) rebuke of Mary in John: 4Jesus saith unto her, Woman, what have I to do with thee? mine hour is not yet come.
Sometimes it seems as if Mary wasn't fully aware of who Jesus was (certainly not His Godhood). She was aware her child was special. But, I don't think she "got" the full implications. I also don't think that she or his brothers were fully converted until after His resurrection. They travelled with him at Cana into Capernaum but later they don't seem to be with him and his disciples as they travelled. You do see them in the upper room later clearly as believers
Hebrews 4:
14Seeing then that we have a great high priest, that is passed into the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our profession.
15For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin.
16Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need.
Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls. (Acts 2:41 KJV)
In typical Baptist style these people were all baptized immediately after they went forward to accept Christ. Also note the correct Baptist ordus, Repent and THEN be baptized. The Roman Church fell into error on that one early on.
Given that the vast majority of scripture covers the time period preceding the resurrection of Christ, the founding of the Church and the subsequent martyrdom of saints, I'm hardly surprised.
"The reason to believe part of your statement is where I disagree completely. Believing in prayer to the dead involved believing that there is an avenue to God that is completely unmentioned in the bible, therefore the bible is incomplete."
I think you're putting too much effort into this misunderstanding. We believe that the prayers of the holy are most effective. It just so happens that the holiest people we know have reposed. The US Postal Service does not deliver across the veil and angels don't carry letters. That doesn't leave a lot of options.
As for the Bible being complete or not, I'd say your expectations differ from mine. I don't expect the Bible to tell me every little detail of what I need to know. Like, for example, how to perform a baptism. Or a liturgy. Or a funeral. Or, in this case, prayer. At some point, I have to take instruction from another source. That other source is the Church.
"I know that people that want to pray to saints and angels will continue, but lets just admit that it never once happens in the bible."
I can admit that. But then again, I wouldn't expect it to.
are suggesting one should not confess their sins reguraly?
No, one should "reguraly" confess one's sins to God.
"Jesus's (perhaps gentle) rebuke of Mary in John: 4Jesus saith unto her, Woman, what have I to do with thee? mine hour is not yet come."
That's the line +John Chrysostomos pointed to. Like I have said, your position is not unknown among the Fathers. But he also penned this:
"Through the prayers of the Theotokos, Savior, save us!"
and
"It is truly meet to bless thee, O Theotokos, who art ever blessed and all-blameless, and the mother of our God. More honorable than the Cherubim, and more glorious beyond compare than the Seraphim, thou who without stain barest God the Word, and art truly Theotokos: we magnify thee."
among other prayers.
I used "saved" in the three tenses and senses the Scripture uses it. Indeed, "being saved" can be called theosis, even though Catholics commonly call it holiness.
We discussed that MaryisGod site before, did we not? I looked then, -- or, what point did I miss?
Very good.
It had to do with the KKK comment. That's as far as I will take you.
Correct, but understand that the Holy See typically and in that case pronounces on what it sees a universal belief already. There were churches named after Immaculate Conception, for example, way before the doctrine was formally accepted.
If I do not ask a specific saint to pray for me, is it a sin? I mean I can go to church and ask Peg to pray but not John. Why are Saints in heaven more important than Saints on earth?
I don't understand why protestants fail to read scripture, in favor of made up traditions like forsaking confession...
James 5:15 And their prayer offered in faith will heal the sick, and the Lord will make them well. And anyone who has committed sins will be forgiven.
James 5:16 Confess your sins to each other and pray for each other so that you may be healed.
I understand. "Glorify and bear God in your body".
There is a danger in cultivating your own temple though.
19 Now therefore you are no more strangers and foreigners; but you are fellow citizens with the saints, and the domestics of God, 20 Built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone: 21 In whom all the building, being framed together, groweth up into an holy temple in the Lord. 22 In whom you also are built together into an habitation of God in the Spirit.(Eph 2)
"If I do not ask a specific saint to pray for me, is it a sin?"
I shouldn't think so, no.
"I mean I can go to church and ask Peg to pray but not John. Why are Saints in heaven more important than Saints on earth?"
I don't know that they are, Blogger.
I saw a Baptist tract once that unabashedly traced their "history" back to the Waldenses and, ultimately, to the Montanists. At first I thought it was a practical joke. But no.
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