Posted on 12/04/2006 7:52:47 PM PST by Pyro7480
That is wisely stated, but Latter-Day-Saints and Jehova's Witnesses and Arians, and Bogomils and Gnostcis call on Christ and Apostoles' words, Gospels and "gospels."
His intent was to show that one could trace the faith backward through history no matter what name those believers went by
But it's not the same faith. Heresies existed alongside the Church.
I've already said that his historical search was faulty.
His thought, though, that one could trace Christianity by tracing legitimate Christian teaching, has merit.
No one before 1820 believed this was post-tribulation. The Scriptures speaks only of the pre-tribulation event and the word translated into English as "rapture" is associated, in its roots in Greek, with the 'resurrection of the dead."
We agree Chaplain, on both accounts. :)
It does?
But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly." [Mat 6:5-6]
Yeah. That's what I mean by discontinuity - which I'm using not as an evaluative term but as an attempt at a descriptive term. I have to think about this. I just don't see the great gulf fixed between those who haven't yet died and those who have.
And as to the discussion thing, I would say that the Bible gives us permission to have these conversations. The impulse is already there, for a lot of us.
I said "it seems," always cognisent of "Byzantine depth perception."
The Communion of Saints got lost along the way of the "Reformation".
We who are alive and remain shall be CAUGHT UP is the resurrection of the dead????? Context says not.
His intent was to show that one could trace the faith backward through history no matter what name those believers went by.
FWIW, the names of these various Christian sects were mostly picked by those who were in opposition to them. So the same sect could end up with several different names through the course of history. Also, the derision that they are treated with is largely due to them not submitting to the state religion of the time. Also, what you find is one of the common denominators of these groups is a belief in the primacy of Scripture.
If your defining heresy as "wrong belief" than looking at the marian doctrines it is clear it is your church and the RCC that are heretical, not various Christian churches that placed Scripture first.
Very simple: Holy Tradition records something Christ did, which is not recorded in the Gospels, to wit, miraculously creating an image of his face by pressing a cloth to his face, and sending it to King Abgar of Edessa, who had faith that merely seeing the Savior would cure his leporsy.
Now 'sola scriptura' types will insist this never took place because it is not in the Bible, in plain contradiction to St. John's conclusion, which say Christ did many things not recorded there in (and so many that you can't claim he is referring only to what is recorded in the Synoptic Gospels, but omitted in John's, since that would not amount to enough books the world could not contain them.)
Either there are not enough deeds of Christ not recorded in the Scriptures so that (on the Holy Apostle and Evangelist John's estimate) the world could not contain the books recording them, and we have a false passage in Scripture, or the Scriptures are not complete, as is necessary for the 'sola scriptura' position.
You have pre and post reversed. The misapplication of St. Paul's description of the events living believers will experience at the time of the General Resurrection to an event before the horror of the end-times sketch prophetically in St. John's Apocalypse to promulgate a notion of 'pre-tribulation' rapture, dates to the 1820's.
I guess it's always good to have a restatement of the matter in debate. It doesn't advance the argument but it helps us remember what the argument concerns.
5000+ posts. You do know what this means.....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7gJU6ctOdMQ
LOL!!
So when assessing what things "Jesus did" you are including things that He didn't do directly?
As Coroner, I must aver,
I thoroughly examined her,
And she's not only MERELY dead,
She's really most SINCERELY dead."
*Most people don't even know that.
P.S. While only the quote can be said to be sola movie sciptura , the rest is settled Cinematic Tradition...
Except for the first sentence or so...
That is oral tradition I just made-up
I guess that Church was not only invisible, it was silent, until the appearance of the very voluble John Smyth in the early 17th Century
BTW, we Catholics can cite Early Church Fathers discussing The Catholic Church.
Please ping me to any, oh, I dunno, evidence, of a Baptist Church, say, prior to, oh I dunno, the 16th Century
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