Posted on 12/04/2006 7:52:47 PM PST by Pyro7480
So, then, Christ is a product of divine and human "genetics?" You are actually suggesting that Mary's DNA (halpoid ovum) genetically fused with the "genetic equivalent" of a divine male [?] DNA (divine "sperm," a "haploid") to produce a mixture of divine and human, a demigod!
-A8
You didn't answer any of my questions.
John Paul II indicated that there was a Messianic fervor at this time. It is NOT a stretch to think Mary fully understood that she was chosen to give birth to the Messiah. Whether or not she realized that He was also God, I doubt. Jewish understanding never seems to have caught on to the fact that the Messiah would be God.
It may show some of Jewish culture, but it shouldn't be used as evidence of anything doctrinal any more than the many non-Scriptural books coming out at the time should be considered for doctrine seeing that it was NOT inspired Scripture.
I wasn't the first one who used the term forgery. I don't believe it is Scriptural.
As far as it being a recording of what someone believed were the beliefs of early Christians, the Muslims believe that we believe that Mary is a member of the Trinity (I can't remember which one falls off, Son or Holy Spirit). Again, this is not evidence that this is an early Christian belief. Adopted later? Yes. But there is no evidence the earliest believers thought about Mary in this manner.
I don't really see how using a haploid affects things either. Mary's DNA provided the human part; unless, the concern is that there would be no Y chromasome coming from Mary, being female. Of course, considering that this is a miraculous event, providing Jesus a Y Chromasome would be no problem if making him a male human is an issue. The Holy Spirit did not place a baby in Mary's womb. The Holy Spirit created a baby through Mary.
Now, as to using Mary, God could have incarnated himself without human agency at all. However, He wouldn't have because the purpose for using Mary is to fulfill his promises to David in Scripture. The Messiah had to be a blood descendent of David. I think that is what you are getting at with the lineage question isn't it? Or have I misunderstood what the debate is about?
Alma Redemptoris Mater, quae pervia caeli porta manes, et stella maris, succurre cadenti, surgere qui curat, populo: tu quae genuisti, natura mirante, tuum sanctum Genitorem, Virgo prius ac posterius, Gabrielis ab ore, sumens illud Ave, peccatorum miserere.
The prayer to Mary as mother of the Redeemer is Chaucer?
No; she is not merely an "incubator". She is His mother.
Christ had no physical relationship to Mary?
He is her son, flesh of her flesh. In Acts 2:30 we see that the Christ is the fruit of David's loins [karpou tes osphuos] and [fructu lumbi eius]. In Rom 1:3 we see that He was born "of the seed of David according to the flesh" [ek spermatos David kata sarka] and [ex semine David secundum caarnem]. His human nature was taken from her.
In what way then is Christ the Son of Man?
His human nature was taken from her.
In what way is Christ the Son of David?
His human nature was taken from her.
In what way is Christ the seed of Abraham?
His human nature was taken from her.
-A8
;)
It's mentioned in Canterbury Tales...
"Loving Mother of our Savior" - a liturgical Marian antiphon.
Special to Advent.
Gotcha.
Tell that to your Orthodox buddies. They don't seem to understand.
Are you telling me sola scriptura does not tell us to read the Word as it is and to first interpret it literally?
And then, try citing that teaching in scripture
Have a good day, brother
How do you say, "Touche" in Greek?
I am not denying that. I agree with you that man can never ascend to God on his own. When a person is said to be righteous, it is because God has made him so - and not by merely declaring some legal status. God MAKES us righteous internally, as the Spirit comes to us and makes us a new creation. Thus, it is not an "either/or" - either me or God. It is both - God and I cooperating. I am given the grace to obey God and I am expected to obey Him. That is the basis for my upcoming judgment. Did I utilize the gifts God has given me. The parable of the Talents clearly shows this judgment and the interaction that exists between God's gifts and man's response.
The mere fact that we are judged shows that man is involved in the equation - as God desires ALL men to be saved. Since some are not, obviously some men do not respond. Thus, man is part of the equation on who is to be saved.
Regards
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