Posted on 12/04/2006 7:52:47 PM PST by Pyro7480
I don’t have any trouble accepting Baxter’s two books on Heaven and Hell at face value.
They are 1. Congruent with Scripture
and
2. Congruent with several other such visitations.
Some of the exclusive assemblies actually have secret handshakes, apparel and other such customs.
Amen, dear brother in Christ!
Thank you so much for your encouragements!
Thank God for Pope Benedict whose First Encyclical was devoted to Love.
And thank God for you, my dearest sister in Christ!
And may He continually bless and cherish you and all of yours, my dearest sister in Him!
Well since there will be a NEW earth and heaven that is not built YET.. I believe there will be a NEW HELL too.. maybe several of them.. or degrees of HELL.. Yeah.. Hell being a penal colony with wardens and guards (angels) might need solitary confinement of several orders of magnitude.. and degrees of solemnity
Sure, some people are absolutely convinced they are Napoleon Bonaparte...
Thanks for posting all the prayers. I agree that prayer is still good even if we know God has already made up His mind. But at the moment of this prayer, hasn't the issue already been resolved? I mean, within time, hasn't the mercy already been granted or not? IOW, how is this different from saying a prayer today for America's victory in WWII?
If it would be preferable to be away from the body then why give us new bodies?
Paul meant THESE bodies. The new bodies we get will be glorified, so they are desirable.
FK: "Will we all look like 18-year-olds?"
Where does it say that in the Bible? I have heard that said by many people, but I can't figure out whence that came.
Oh, from me it comes from no where. I just picked an early age of maturity. I just wondered if there were any reasoned theories out there about how it will be.
"You MUST be born again"- Jesus.. some are convinced they are christians when they are NOT born again.. but mere believers in some wazoo dogma..
Its about WHO YOU ARE NOT what you believe.. -or- who you think you are..
When it comes to God, we can only ask for His mercy, trusting in Him and assuming nothing. That's when the priest says, "let us pray," the people respond "Lord have mercy."
IOW, how is this different from saying a prayer today for America's victory in WWII? Then why pray at all? If our fate is certain, as I am certain you believe, then prayers will do nothing, for the living or the dead.
We do know that the souls will be reunited with their renewed bodies and that those who believe will go to God and those who don't will depart into everlasting fire. What happens until then is the realm of hope, which is faith.
Yeah, yeah...it's that inner knowledge (gnosis), isn't it? Still peddling that heresy, huh?
Yeah.. but I like heretics, like the Queen of Heaven stuff.. and transubstantiation schick... and far more than that, that I put up with..
basically I love you, more, than you love me..
(Happy Dance)...
To wich I say prove it!
I am that I am..
Oh you poor thing!, so deep in self-delusion.
This is a strange remark on three levels. First, it wouldn't be disqualifying a theology except in the eye of some Protestant knee-jerkers. The Gospel of Jesus Christ is a gospel of works, as well as of grace:
6 [God] will render to every man according to his works. 7 To them indeed, who according to patience in good work, seek glory and honour and incorruption, eternal life: 8 But to them that are contentious, and who obey not the truth, but give credit to iniquity, wrath and indignation. 9 Tribulation and anguish upon every soul of man that worketh evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Greek. 10 But glory, and honour, and peace to every one that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.(Romans 2)
17 So faith also, if it have not works, is dead in itself. 18 But some man will say: Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without works; and I will shew thee, by works, my faith. 19 Thou believest that there is one God. Thou dost well: the devils also believe and tremble. 20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead? 21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, offering up Isaac his son upon the altar? 22 Seest thou, that faith did co-operate with his works; and by works faith was made perfect? 23 And the scripture was fulfilled, saying: Abraham believed God, and it was reputed to him to justice, and he was called the friend of God. 24 Do you see that by works a man is justified; and not by faith only?
(James 2)
Second, liturgical works are not commonly understood as works: these are gifts of grace.
Heal the sick, raise the dead, cleanse the lepers, cast out devils: freely have you received, freely give(Matthew 10:8)
Lastly, the sacramental ecclesiology is plain gospel -- call it what you will.
Do penance, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ, for the remission of your sins: and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost(Acts 2:38)
baptism being of the like form [of water], now saveth you also
(1 Peter 3:21)
16 The chalice of benediction, which we bless, is it not the communion of the blood of Christ? And the bread, which we break, is it not the partaking of the body of the Lord? 17 For we, being many, are one bread, one body, all that partake of one bread
(1 Cor. 10)
54 ... Except you eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, you shall not have life in you. 55 He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath everlasting life: and I will raise him up in the last day. 56 For my flesh is meat indeed: and my blood is drink indeed. 57 He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, abideth in me, and I in him. 58 As the living Father hath sent me, and I live by the Father; so he that eateth me, the same also shall live by me.
(John 6)
Christ pointed to a piece of bread and said “eat it, this is my body” (in all synoptic gospels). When challenged on whether he meant it in the literal sense, He made it clear that indeed, “unless you gnaw on it, you will not have eternal life” in the Gospel of St. John. [...] After His resurrection, moreover, He performed another miracle: He appeared to the disciples in Emmaus in such a way that they only recognized Him in the bread. St. Paul also taught the Corinthians that they should “discern” the body of Christ in the Communion. This describes what is known as Real Presence of Christ in the Eucharist. All we do at this point is take the scripture, the words of Christ, literally. I am aware of other interpretations, — that He meant it in some nonliteral sense, but they do not convince me.
The Real Presence is the fundamental Catholic doctrine. It is also the Orthodox belief, and Martin Luther’s belief, and I can point you to Christian writings from the 1st Century that describe the same doctrine, so it is also the historical doctrine since the beginning of Christianity.
The question arises, — How can bread (or wine), which our senses continue to perceive as bread, become body, blood, soul and divinity of Christ? What is the mechanism of the Real Presence?
The answer to this could not be given till the synthesis of classic aristotelian philosophy and Christianity occurred in the Middle Ages. Prior to that, the answer was — We don’t know, just like we don’t know how Jesus walked on water or fed the thousands with five loaves and two fish. It is a miracle and a mystery. This non-explanation remains the Orthodox teaching to this day, and we, Catholics, are fine with it. It is sufficient to maintain your catholicity if you simply say “I don’t know how the Real Presence happens”. Nevertheless, the inquiring mind of St. Thomas Aquinas gave the answer, and his answer is Transubstantiation. What it means, he taught, is that everything has “substance” and “appearance” (the techical term is “accidents”). Usually when the substance changes, the appearance changes also. For example, when a log becomes fire ir looks different than a cold log. But still the substance of the log is not what enters our eyes and nostrils, the accidents of the log do. So, in principle, it is possible there to be a discrepancy between substance and appearance. Such is the case with the Eucharistic elements: the substance of the bread changes over to Christ, — the bread trans-substantiates, — but the accidents remain as before, the appearance and taste of bread.
It is similar to how the disciples are with real Jesus in Emmaus, but they see a stranger and not Jesus, till the end of their conversation.
Luther offered another explanation for the Real Presence, Consubstantiation, of which you need to ask a Lutheran.
You also asked what is the need for it. The simple answer is, it is a commandment of Christ to do it, so priests continue to do it in His name. Christ also explained what benefit it is to us, when He sad that unless we eat the Eucharist, we will not have eternal life.
(Link)
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