Posted on 12/04/2006 7:52:47 PM PST by Pyro7480
Worship and right understanding are inseperable to a point. The Jehovah's Witnesses could claim worship but do not have a right understanding of who Christ is. As such, their worship is of a false God. On the essentials, we have to get it right. Otherwise, our 'worship' is no better than pagan worship.
B.
= = =
i AGREE.
But I suspect God looks at the heart and any heart genuinely worshipping with a heart after Him will be rewarded.
Amen, FK! Thank you for your Godly correction.
Isn't "rightly dividing the word of truth" a wonderful, satisfying and reassuring pursuit?
Thanks for the details on what the recognized Canon really was and who added books to it. I appreciate the links. They will give me sources to begin looking at after I finish my current reading.
IIRC the LXX is also known as the Septuagint because it was supposed to have been translated by 70 scholars in 70 days from Hebrew to Greek. If this is true it would seem to me that the greatest concern for error would exist with the LXX because the scholars were working so quickly.
As I understand it the Masoretic text was never written in that type of time frame.
Was the Masoretic text translated from another text?
Petraeus : sounds like a ROMAN GENERAL, yes? One wonders : was there a petraeus in ceasers army like re-incarnated PATTON? Ah yes, doctors bury their mistakes, lawyers put theirs behind bars, but all we architects can do is plant ivy and drive by with AVERTED EYES...
There was a hole in the fence between heaven and hell, bad guys kept slipping thru and causing all kinds of trouble. Saint Pete had to collar them and throw them back over the fence. Finally tiring of this he yelled at satan : If you don't fix this hole I'm going to SUE. Have you got a LAWYER? saith satan....
As to the dems, I view 11/7/6 as an evil surf wave smashing into the seawall of american conservativism, already breaking into spray. This anti-war resolution is but a weak slosh, quickly draining away. Our PRESIDENT has stood firm against the darkness, following his oath to defend against all enemies, foreign and domestic. GO GWB! And let's DUMP those 17 R-reps that voted with the dems asap...floating away with the weak slosh...
Don't forget these folks are from the Vietnam generation. I think they are successfully isolating GWB and in 2008 the full retreat will take place.
It's obvious to me that we want to keep repeating history.
Indeed, with a little research, I see that the idea that the Jews rewrote the OT to "fool us stupid Christians" is a concept put forth by some separatist groups. (And if you wonder where some posters get their ideas, wonder no more)
Nice work.. but you're posting into to a long dark culvert..
The disconnect to pagan Queens of Heaven.. is great..
i.e. Isis and Horus(perpetual infant), Ashteroth(wife of Baal,Molech), Buddist, Hindu, Gnostic, and other mystery religions..
You did put it quite well I think.. short, sweet , to the point..
Here is an excellent and objective article on the Septuagint. Unfortunately it doesn't address the Masoretic text which, as I understand it, came after the three versions (AQUILA, SYMMACHUS, THEODOTION). It is my understanding the Masoretic text was an attempt to correct some of the issues with the Septuagint these three versions tried to compete with but not to scrap it.
think POSITIVE. The dim-dems don't have a single POSITIVE idea, it's all hatred and get-even and you CAN'T govern with a totally negative attitude. It's the other side of the bogus bill-coin : going in every direction at once means you're going NOWHERE, which perfectly describes 1992-2000. Now it's GOING NOWHERE with the dim-dems, nobody ever built a monument to honor a CRITIC!
The election is a year and a half away before it gets to be crunch/decision time. We have a president with the courage to STAY THE COURSE. Are you there, shoulder to shoulder with him, or a cut and runner too? We are being challenged by an angry, hate-filled world, jealous of our economic and military successes; with a president who takes his oath seriously(unlike his predecessor) : to defend against all enemies, foreign and DOMESTIC.
Don't forget the cult of Cybelle. ;-)
Well said both of you!
It's hard to stay positive. I see our culture embracing the behavior that has destroyed other empires; moral relativism, infanticide, promiscuity, homosexuality, godlessness. We have large Christian sects that embrace this liberal agenda and those that stand against it are the one group in this country you can openly denigrate, the Evangelical Christians.
Thanks for saying so. Your thoughtfulness is much appreciated.
I try.
Sometimes, by God's Grace, it may even show.
And, seriously, the old saw
LOVE GOD AND DO WHAT YOU WANT still works.
Just that conditional first part that's hard to . . . measure up to except and until He works it into the fiber of our being.
But your emphasis on WORSHIP is a very apt one, I think.
And, my bias is, that when one's heart is genuinely leaning toward; leaning into; focused intently on God . . . God has a relatively easy time of making all the other stuff eventully line up sufficiently for this time/space dimension.
Sometimes folks say "I LOVE HAGEN DAZ" with more feeling and intensity than their expressed Love for God.
The tangible and concrete can be so seductive.
BTW . . . I intend to get back to that thread by and by.
Honestly try even if you honestly fail.
The ego gets in the way. In the Three Little Hermits, a bishop comes ashore on the little island where they lived and this is what transpires:
'I have heard,' he said, 'that you, godly men, live here saving your own souls, and praying to our Lord Christ for your fellow men. I, an unworthy servant of Christ, am called, by God's mercy, to keep and teach His flock. I wished to see you, servants of God, and to do what I can to teach you, also.'
The old men looked at each other smiling, but remained silent.
'Tell me,' said the Bishop, 'what you are doing to save your souls, and how you serve God on this island.'
The second hermit sighed, and looked at the oldest, the very ancient one. The latter smiled, and said:
'We do not know how to serve God. We only serve and support ourselves, servant of God.'
'But how do you pray to God?' asked the Bishop.
'We pray in this way,' replied the hermit. 'Three are ye, three are we, have mercy upon us.'
And when the old man said this, all three raised their eyes to heaven, and repeated:
'Three are ye, three are we, have mercy upon us!'
The Bishop smiled.
'You have evidently heard something about the Holy Trinity,' said he. 'But you do not pray aright. You have won my affection, godly men. I see you wish to please the Lord, but you do not know how to serve Him. That is not the way to pray; but listen to me, and I will teach you. I will teach you, not a way of my own, but the way in which God in the Holy Scriptures has commanded all men to pray to Him.'
And the Bishop began explaining to the hermits how God had revealed Himself to men; telling them of God the Father, and God the Son, and God the Holy Ghost.
'God the Son came down on earth,' said he, 'to save men, and this is how He taught us all to pray. Listen and repeat after me: "Our Father."'
And the first old man repeated after him, 'Our Father,' and the second said, 'Our Father,' and the third said, 'Our Father...'"
The arrogance of the bishop (and the false humility "I, an unworthy servant") shows through and through...he will teach them how to pray aright...the sad thing is the bishop could not even recognize his own pride. Anyway, the little hermits spent considerable amount of time trying to memorise the Lord's Prayer.
When the bishop believed they memorized it, he left. The ship which brought the bishop to the island where the hermits lived departed with the bishop on it...
'It must be a boat sailing after us,' thought he 'but it is overtaking us very rapidly. It was far, far away a minute ago, but now it is much nearer. It cannot be a boat, for I can see no sail; but whatever it may be, it is following us, and catching us up.'
And he could not make out what it was. Not a boat, nor a bird, nor a fish! It was too large for a man, and besides a man could not be out there in the midst of the sea. The Bishop rose, and said to the helmsman:
'Look there, what is that, my friend? What is it?' the Bishop repeated, though he could now see plainly what it was -- the three hermits running upon the water, all gleaming white, their grey beards shining, and approaching the ship as quickly as though it were not morning.
The steersman looked and let go the helm in terror.
'Oh Lord! The hermits are running after us on the water as though it were dry land!'
The passengers hearing him, jumped up, and crowded to the stern. They saw the hermits coming along hand in hand, and the two outer ones beckoning the ship to stop. All three were gliding along upon the water without moving their feet. Before the ship could be stopped, the hermits had reached it, and raising their heads, all three as with one voice, began to say:
'We have forgotten your teaching, servant of God. As long as we kept repeating it we remembered, but when we stopped saying it for a time, a word dropped out, and now it has all gone to pieces. We can remember nothing of it. Teach us again.'
The Bishop crossed himself, and leaning over the ship's side, said:
'Your own prayer will reach the Lord, men of God. It is not for me to teach you. Pray for us sinners.
And the Bishop bowed low before the old men; and they turned and went back across the sea. And a light shone until daybreak on the spot where they were lost to sight.
1886"
I was speaking as in the whole. There certainly are parts. For example, the passages speak of those who don't hold the same views on the Eucharist, those who don't follow the bishop as Christ followed the Father, and those who don't follow the presbytery as the Apostles. To these I would say "sure".
However, the passages also speak against those who abstain from prayer, those who do not heed the prophets or the Gospels, those without reverence for the deaconate as an institution of God, and they condemn anyone doing something without the knowledge of the bishop as being in service to satan. Since I pray, I heed, I recognize the deaconate, and I don't serve satan as a practice, I know that none of these things apply to me.
Personally, I sincerely doubt that the early Reformers looked to early heretics for inspiration.
I'm sure that's true. I was really more talking about unpopular views among the established clergy. Two recent examples we've been talking about are Augustine on predestination, and Jerome on the Dueterocanonicals.
Stick with Sola Scriptura and blame us Greeks for the "error" of the first 1500 years of Church history.
LOL! Point taken.
Marvelous. Love it.
Had not read it before.
Thanks tons.
Very apt words. Appreciated.
Yes, I know, I left my presbyterian church after 50 years(deacon, choir singer)over the homosexual issue. They voted them in nationally = this christian conservative is OUTTA here. Satan is welcome to those liberals. The road to the cross is a lonely one, the other road is broad and FULL of traffic...
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