Bishops Insist Hymns Follow Doctrine

NC Register ^ | December 3, 2006 | WAYNE LAUGESEN

[ArrogantBustard]

I like getting rid of the archaic English and I much prefer "God in us made manifest"

You can prefer anything that you like, but the meaning has been changed for the worse, in the interests of feminism. "God in Man made manifest" is an affirmation of the Incarnation ... that in the Person of Our Lord Jesus Christ, human nature and Divine nature are joined. I'm not sure that "God in us made manifest" means anything.

[Varda]

see post 30.

[ArrogantBustard]

“God in (or as) man” makes the phrase “made manifest” redundant.

I disagree with this. Again, it's a reference to the Incarnation, in which God chose to manifest Himself in the world ...by becoming Man.

[ichabod1]

"A Mighty Fortress is Our God"

Biggest problem with this one is that it's by this german monk that got crosswise with the Catholic Church. Fella name 'o Luther.

[ArrogantBustard]

Here's the entire Hymn:

Songs of Thankfulness and Praise
Words: Christ­o­pher Words­worth, 1862
Music: St. George’s Wind­sor, George J. El­vey, 1858

Songs of thankfulness and praise,
Jesus, Lord, to Thee we raise,
Manifested by the star
To the sages from afar;
Branch of royal David’s stem
In Thy birth at Bethlehem;
Anthems be to Thee addressed,
God in man made manifest.

Manifest at Jordan’s stream,
Prophet, Priest, and King supreme;
And at Cana, wedding guest,
In Thy Godhead manifest;
Manifest in power divine,
Changing water into wine;
Anthems be to Thee addressed,
God in man made manifest.

Manifest in making whole
Palsied limbs and fainting soul;
Manifest in valiant fight,
Quelling all the devil’s might;
Manifest in gracious will,
Ever bringing good from ill;
Anthems be to Thee addressed,
God in man made manifest.

Sun and moon shall darkened be,
Stars shall fall, the heavens shall flee,
Christ will then like lightning shine,
All will see His glorious sign:
All will then the trumpet hear;
All will see the Judge appear;
Thou by all wilt be confessed,
God in man made manifest.

Grant us grace to see Thee, Lord,
Mirrored in Thy holy Word;
May we imitate Thee now,
And be pure, as pure art Thou;
That we like to Thee may be
At Thy great Epiphany;
And may praise Thee, ever blest,
God in man made manifest.

[ichabod1]

See, God In Man Made Manifest is a hymn about the Epiphany, and thus is totally about Jesus being the God-Man.

[ichabod1]

Yeah, that would be my problem with Amazing Grace. It's about a personal conversion experience and not pointed directly to scripture. The BEST thing about church music is when it's directly linked to scripture because we learn text better when it's set to music. As a chorister I know so much more scripture than I would otherwise.

[Piers-the-Ploughman]

I would agree that Amazing Grace (original text) while not explicitly Catholic is suitable for our Church, perhaps at penitential services.

The word "wretch" is strong but not incompatible with our theology. It does suggest Calvinist influence it seems to me.

[Wonder Warthog]

"The word "wretch" is strong but not incompatible with our theology."

I dunno. I feel pretty wretched when I'm in need of confession (and lots better afterward). And for those of us who were not "cradle Catholics", I also think it's pretty accurate for our state before we found our way to the true Church.

[Varda]

I'm aware that the Hymn is about the Incarnation, it is that is obvious.

I'm saying that the subject of the sentence is "God in man" and the predicate is "made manifest". Therefore I do not interpret the subject "God in man" to mean Jesus but rather the Imago Dei.

If "God in man" equals Jesus than you should be able to rewrite the sentence as,
"Jesus made manifest" This doesn't work for me, Jesus by definition is God manifest.

If "God in man" equals "Imago Dei" than you should be able to rewrite the sentence as,
"The image of God made manifest" This works for me because it can only be Jesus. God is spirit, what is unseen (the image of God) becomes seen (manifest). Word is made flesh.

I would like to add that the author uses the phrase "God IN man" not "God as man". Using the phrase "God in man" to mean Jesus gives me the whiff of the idea of the human and the divine being somehow distinct; of Jesus being a form that holds God within. That's an idea I run from.

[ArrogantBustard]

I find your interpretation insupportable.

The verses all address a person, whose name or title is (among other things) "God in man made manifest" ... a rather poetic way of saying "God manifested in human nature".

There is precisely one Person Who is "God manifested in human nature": Jesus of Nazareth, AKA the Son of God, AKA the Word who was made flesh and dwelt among us.

Every verse in that hymn is about different ways God manifested in human nature demonstrated to us Who He is.

God in us &c says something else entirely.

[Ruy Dias de Bivar]

***Biggest problem with this one is that it's by this german monk that got crosswise with the Catholic Church. Fella name 'o Luther.***

that is why I thought it was strange they were playing it during a procession at the Vatican.

[It's me]

You still haven't answered my question:

How is "How Great Thou Art" heretical?

[baa39]

deism

[It's me]

WHAT???? de·ism /ˈdiɪzəm/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[dee-iz-uhm] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation –noun 1. belief in the existence of a God on the evidence of reason and nature only, with rejection of supernatural revelation (distinguished from theism). 2. belief in a God who created the world but has since remained indifferent to it. [Origin: 1675–85; < F déisme < L de(us) god + F -isme -ism] Please explain who the following lyrics show "belief in the existence of a God on the evidence of reason and nature only, with rejection of supernatural revelation" O Lord my God, When I in awesome wonder, Consider all the worlds Thy Hands have made; I see the stars, I hear the rolling thunder, Thy power throughout the universe displayed. Then sings my soul, My Saviour God, to Thee, How great Thou art, How great Thou art. Then sings my soul, My Saviour God, to Thee, How great Thou art, How great Thou art! When through the woods, and forest glades I wander, And hear the birds sing sweetly in the trees. When I look down, from lofty mountain grandeur And see the brook, and feel the gentle breeze. Then sings my soul, My Saviour God, to Thee, How great Thou art, How great Thou art. Then sings my soul, My Saviour God, to Thee, How great Thou art, How great Thou art! And when I think, that God, His Son not sparing; Sent Him to die, I scarce can take it in; That on the Cross, my burden gladly bearing, He bled and died to take away my sin. Then sings my soul, My Saviour God, to Thee, How great Thou art, How great Thou art. Then sings my soul, My Saviour God, to Thee, How great Thou art, How great Thou art! When Christ shall come, with shout of acclamation, And take me home, what joy shall fill my heart. Then I shall bow, in humble adoration, And then proclaim: "My God, how great Thou art!" Then sings my soul, My Saviour God, to Thee, How great Thou art, How great Thou art. Then sings my soul, My Saviour God, to Thee, How great Thou art, How great Thou art!

[It's me]

oh bummer!!!

[It's me]

WHAT????

de·ism /ˈdiɪzəm/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[dee-iz-uhm] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation –noun
1. belief in the existence of a God on the evidence of reason and nature only, with rejection of supernatural revelation (distinguished from theism).
2. belief in a God who created the world but has since remained indifferent to it.
[Origin: 1675–85; < F déisme < L de(us) god + F -isme -ism]

Please explain who the following lyrics show "belief in the existence of a God on the evidence of reason and nature only, with rejection of supernatural revelation"

O Lord my God, When I in awesome wonder,
Consider all the worlds Thy Hands have made;
I see the stars, I hear the rolling thunder,
Thy power throughout the universe displayed.

Then sings my soul, My Saviour God, to Thee,
How great Thou art, How great Thou art.
Then sings my soul, My Saviour God, to The,
How great Thou art, How great Thou art!

When through the woods, and forest glades I wander,
And hear the birds sing sweetly in the trees.
When I look down, from lofty mountain grandeur
And see the brook, and feel the gentle breeze.

Then sings my soul, My Saviour God, to Thee,
How great Thou art, How great Thou art.
Then sings my soul, My Saviour God, to Thee,
How great Thou art, How great Thou art!

And when I think, that God, His Son not sparing;
Sent Him to die, I scarce can take it in;
That on the Cross, my burden gladly bearing,
He bled and died to take away my sin.

Then sings my soul, My Saviour God, to Thee,
How great Thou art, How great Thou art.
Then sings my soul, My Saviour God, to Thee,
How great Thou art, How great Thou art!

When Christ shall come, with shout of acclamation,
And take me home, what joy shall fill my heart.
Then I shall bow, in humble adoration,
And then proclaim: "My God, how great Thou art!"

Then sings my soul, My Saviour God, to Thee,
How great Thou art, How great Thou art.
Then sings my soul, My Saviour God, to Thee,
How great Thou art, How great Thou art!

[It's me]

2. belief in a God who created the world but has since remained indifferent to it.

The following stanza really proves the definition #2:

And when I think, that God, His Son not sparing;
Sent Him to die, I scarce can take it in;
That on the Cross, my burden gladly bearing,
He bled and died to take away my sin.