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A History of the Church: 1517 A.D. to the Present
Protestantism and its Forms
http://www.therealpresence.org/archives/Church_Dogma/Church_Dogma_013.htm ^
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| Fr. John A. Hardon
Posted on 11/15/2006 10:40:30 AM PST by stfassisi
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First Principle Form of Protestantism - Sola Scriptura What are the essentials of Protestantism? It is not to know what some of those essentials are, because in over four hundred years, going on five hundred years, they have remained I would say, quite constant, in other words, those basic premises of Protestantism have not basically changed. And in Latin thats why they got started first sola scriptura: Scripture alone. How do we know Gods mind and will from Scripture alone? Sola scriptura, by Scripture alone. Only the written revealed word of God is necessary, not just for salvation, but to know everything that God wants us to both believe, and to do. It is all contained in the Bible. Historically, that position could not have, could not have been assumed, no way, until the discovery of print. Usually we assign about 14, 1465 as the beginning of the print age. And the first printed book, as I am sure we all know, was the Bible. Well, Luther and his followers identified all of Gods revelation with that written book. As over the years, Ive been telling people, the more bizarre, the more incredible, the stranger an idea is talk about human nature the more believers you are liable to get. Imagine claiming the law of God, revealed Truth, is in a written book. When until less than a century before the rise of Protestantism, there were no books in existence. There were manuscripts, but no books.
1
posted on
11/15/2006 10:40:35 AM PST
by
stfassisi
To: jo kus; Pyro7480; annalex; Salvation; Campion
Father Hardon wrote much of his material in the presence of the Blessed sacrament.
This will probably stir some.
I,m posting this and I will be gone for a few days til Sunday
2
posted on
11/15/2006 10:45:44 AM PST
by
stfassisi
("Above all gifts that Christ gives his beloved is that of overcoming self"St Francis Assisi)
To: Siobhan; Canticle_of_Deborah; NYer; Salvation; sandyeggo; american colleen; Desdemona; ...
3
posted on
11/15/2006 10:48:20 AM PST
by
Pyro7480
("Give me an army saying the Rosary and I will conquer the world." - Pope Blessed Pius IX)
To: stfassisi
bookmark for later reading.
4
posted on
11/15/2006 10:50:18 AM PST
by
IrishCatholic
(No local communist or socialist party chapter? Join the Democrats, it's the same thing.)
To: stfassisi
5
posted on
11/15/2006 10:56:37 AM PST
by
east1234
(It's the borders stupid. It's also WWIV.)
interesting. No scripture given for support. No biblical or extra biblical (God spoke or showed to me) ...hummmm.
Solo Scripture means that God can not change. If He does speak to you, He WILL NOT say anything different than what He has written in the Bible (spelling?) If a book or person claims to have favor with God and speak the voice of God and contradict the Bible, then one of the sources IS NOT from God. You pick.
6
posted on
11/15/2006 11:05:17 AM PST
by
tmp02
To: tmp02
interesting. No scripture given for support. He's discussing history; it's not an apologetics lecture, and not a devotional or Bible study.
Solo Scripture means that God can not change. If He does speak to you, He WILL NOT say anything different than what He has written in the Bible (spelling?)
It's sola scriptura. But you don't need sola scriptura to get where you're going; all you need is a belief in the inspiration of Scripture, an orthodox belief about the nature of God, and logic.
7
posted on
11/15/2006 11:11:34 AM PST
by
Campion
("I am so tired of you, liberal church in America" -- Mother Angelica, 1993)
To: Campion
Hasn't the "Word" changed over history?
8
posted on
11/15/2006 11:19:57 AM PST
by
tmp02
To: stfassisi
"For Protestants it does not really, really, make a difference whether Jesus Christ is really God or not."
What a bufoon this guy is!
To: Campion
I understand, but he is speaking with no footnotes for his claims, that's all.
10
posted on
11/15/2006 11:28:16 AM PST
by
tmp02
To: Augustinian monk; stfassisi
"For Protestants it does not really, really, make a difference whether Jesus Christ is really God or not."
What a bufoon this guy is!
9 posted on 11/15/2006 12:27:58 PM MST by Augustinian monk
You give John Hardon far too much credit! He is either completely ignorant or a purposeful lier
b'shem Y'shua
11
posted on
11/15/2006 12:01:36 PM PST
by
Uri’el-2012
(Psalm 144:1 Praise be to YHvH, my Rock, who trains my hands for war, my fingers for battle.)
To: Augustinian monk
""For Protestants it does not really, really, make a difference whether Jesus Christ is really God or not.""
Bishop John Shelby Spong comes to mind.
"Theism, as a way of defining God, is dead. So most theological God-talk is today meaningless. A new way to speak of God must be found.
Since God can no longer be conceived in theistic terms, it becomes nonsensical to seek to understand Jesus as the incarnation of the theistic deity. So the Christology of the ages is bankrupt.
The biblical story of the perfect and finished creation from which human beings fell into sin is pre-Darwinian mythology and post-Darwinian nonsense.
The virgin birth, understood as literal biology, makes Christ's divinity, as traditionally understood, impossible.
The miracle stories of the New Testament can no longer be interpreted in a post-Newtonian world as supernatural events performed by an incarnate deity.
The view of the cross as the sacrifice for the sins of the world is a barbarian idea based on primitive concepts of God and must be dismissed.
Resurrection is an action of God. Jesus was raised into the meaning of God. It therefore cannot be a physical resuscitation occurring inside human history.
The story of the Ascension assumed a three-tiered universe and is therefore not capable of being translated into the concepts of a post-Copernican space age.
There is no external, objective, revealed standard writ in scripture or on tablets of stone that will govern our ethical behavior for all time.
Prayer cannot be a request made to a theistic deity to act in human history in a particular way." SNIP~
http://www.anglicantas.org.au/tasmaniananglican/200310-spong.html
12
posted on
11/15/2006 12:01:53 PM PST
by
OpusatFR
( ALEA IACTA EST. We have just crossed the Rubicon.)
To: stfassisi
Interesting that you posted the excerpt you did. It is a horribly inaccurate representation of the doctrine of sola scriptura. The statement about it not really making a difference to Protestants whether Jesus was truly God or not only confirm the fact that this is hardly anything approaching a scholarly study.
13
posted on
11/15/2006 12:36:18 PM PST
by
Frumanchu
(Historical Revisionism: When you're tired of being on the losing side of history.)
To: OpusatFR
What exactly are you claiming?
14
posted on
11/15/2006 12:56:22 PM PST
by
A.J.Armitage
(http://calvinist-libertarians.blogspot.com/)
To: OpusatFR; Alex Murphy; Dr. Eckleburg; RnMomof7
15
posted on
11/15/2006 1:06:07 PM PST
by
Frumanchu
(Historical Revisionism: When you're tired of being on the losing side of history.)
To: Augustinian monk
What a bufoon this guy is! For Protestants it does not really, really, make a difference whether Jesus Christ is really God or not. Six of Luthers works have never been published and they will never be published, as long as there is a Lutheran left on earth. Theyll never be published. Kept in safety deposit boxes in Germany. One page after another, and the manuscript is of Martin Luther, Christ is described as and I am being very kind, as a lecherous sinner. No way, no way, that the Christ of Martin Luther could be the living God.
*Fr. Hardon was a brilliant priest. Please rethink your post, re-read what Fr. Hardon wrote, and then, feel at liberty to apologise. Fr. Hardon is CLEARLY referring to what Luther wrote
To: bornacatholic
This post filed under Roswell/Fake Moon Landing
17
posted on
11/15/2006 1:17:03 PM PST
by
Frumanchu
(Historical Revisionism: When you're tired of being on the losing side of history.)
To: Frumanchu
You were prdestined to make that post so I am unable to extend any credit to you :)
To: bornacatholic
Silly goose, Calvinists never take credit anyway.
19
posted on
11/15/2006 1:19:24 PM PST
by
Frumanchu
(Historical Revisionism: When you're tired of being on the losing side of history.)
To: A.J.Armitage
I'm not claiming anything. One poster disclaimed the remark and I posted what I remember from Spong's talks.
Y'all can discuss it among yourselves. I just put info forth.
20
posted on
11/15/2006 1:22:16 PM PST
by
OpusatFR
( ALEA IACTA EST. We have just crossed the Rubicon.)
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