Posted on 10/24/2006 8:23:05 AM PDT by Dumb_Ox
I believe that the Friends (aka Quakers) have "free-form" meetings.
I have never attended one, but my understanding is that the worshipers sit in a reverent silence, and whenever an individual feels led to speak to the group, or pray aloud, they rise and do so at any time.
I don't believe they have any liturgy or any type of structured service.
If there are any Friends on this thread, perhaps they can clarify or correct me if I'm wrong :)
Kumbaya bump
Uffda!!!???
I was wondering where in the world that came from. Then I read you were from Minn/St. Paul. 'Splains everyt'ing, ya knoow.
You are welcome to have your opinion on things. I am just stating what the Word of God says about the matter. I have done my part.
God Bless.
What is not universally agreed upon? That marriage does not exist in heaven? It is clear from Scripture (Matthew 22:30, Luke 20:35) that marriage does not exist in heaven.
That has already been discussed in the thread. As Christians, our authority for worship is found under the law of Christ, not under the Old Law, which was fulfilled by Christ and is no longer in effect.
Being a recovering Plymouth Brethren, I can tell you the form is just as liturgical as any other church. The content of the service varies, but the order does not. Someone invariably gives thanks for Communion at about 45-50 minutes into the service, then the plate is passed during announcements.
It may be a very simple liturgy, but it is a liturgy none the less. If you doubt that it is a liturgy, try this: stand up and give thanks for the bread and cup 5 minutes into the meeting. Watch peoples heads spin.
So, I'm still left wondering how the new covenant had the effect of rendering musical instruments unacceptable.
I ask this because it seems you believe the entire Old Testament Word of God has been replaced by the New Testament. I am not aware of anything in Scripture to support that view. What I do find is that the old covenant has been superceded by the new covenant. It's not the same, not even close.
What on earth is "Bionic Son" ?
Ah, that one also caught my eye. Sounds pretty gruesome, doesn't it?
On the OCP page you can listen to a sample of each ringtone before laying your money down. Bionic Son sounds sounds like a dance club tune. It's got a beat that will make you move your feet.
If the new covenant has superceded the old covenant(which it has), and we have been given a specific command in the new covenant regarding praise in worship(which we have), then what authority do we have to add to the command given in the new covenant?
The very same authority by which you prohibit instruments in church, when in fact no New Covenant command prohibits the same. Unless you're careful, you could well fall afoul of the warnings in Colossians 2.
In point of fact, the New Testament is silent on the matter of instruments in church. Is it not better to simply speak where the bible speaks, and be silent where it is silent?
I'm just speculating here, but based on what little I know of the life and ministry of Jesus the Christ, I suspect that he would agree with you. His life was very much grounded in the Torah. It had to be, because the very Law He came to fulfill was an expression of the Authority by which he acted.
You know, those verses don't specifically state that it is acceptable to wear clothes while singing praises unto the Lord, either. I sincerely hope your congregation is not offending Him by singing while fully dressed.
The command to sing is specific. It does not leave room for mechanical instruments. If we only had a general command to praise God, then anything would be allowed. However, we are told specifically how to praise God. It is by singing and making melody in our hearts.
Sorry to hear of your bad experience.
If you doubt that it is a liturgy, try this: stand up and give thanks for the bread and cup 5 minutes into the meeting. Watch peoples heads spin.
Not all groups are the same; everything in and around your post suggests yours was more rigid than most.
Breaking bread five minutes into the meeting would make some people uncomfortable. But, for most groups, I doubt it would be a big problem.
then the plate is passed during announcements
That is by no means universal, and it's simply a matter of expediency and custom.
Thanks for your input. Best wishes during your continuing recovery.
And somehow having a piano in the room negates that?
Tell me, does the command to sing leave room to use songbooks? My bible certainly doesn't specifically authorize the use of written records of hymns, and while we do have written records of the lyrics of the psalms, these are without down Old Covenant writings and therefore do not apply. There is of course the New Covenant command to sing "...hymns, songs, and spiritual songs" as recorded in Ephesians 5 and Colossians 3, but these passages do not permit songbooks any more than they allow instruments, and it's likely that the first-century church didn't use songbooks.
When you say "The command to sing is specific. It does not leave room for mechanical instruments," I reply "Says you." If you can't cite any biblical authority for your position, I'm afraid there's no reason why I should respect that position. Show me in the Word of God where instruments are forbidden...or, failing that, show me in the Word of God where your approach to the scriptures that pertain to the issue is prescribed. If you can't do that, you're standing on your own authority, or that of the people who taught you, and that won't sway anyone. Nor should it.
Again, your terminology points to your seeming desire to throw out the OT in its entirety. Ephesians 5:19 and Colossians 3:16 have not replaced Psalms 149 and 150. Those epistles appear in the NT. They came under the new covenant.
The NT has not replaced the OT. The new covenant has replaced the old covenant. Surely you understand the distinction.
I am very interested to know where Scripture says otherwise.
First, let me answer your point about songbooks. There is a difference between an expedient or aid, and addition to a command. Songbooks do not add or change the command to sing. They only aid in the singing. However, if mechanical instruments are used in worship, then that is adding to the command to sing. It is a different type of music.
As I have said before, while the Old Law is not binding on Christians, the Old Testament was "written for our learning" (Romans 15:4). There are numerous examples in the Old Testament (Cain and Abel, Nadab and Abihu for example) where people took it upon themselves to do something not specifically forbidden by God. Cain's offering was not accepted by God, and Nadab and Abihu were destroyed by God for offering something that was different from what was specifically commanded. When a specific command was given in these cases, doing something outside of that specific command was not authorized.
Where does "the fear of God" and repect for God come in?
"Bow down before your LORD, Your maker"...
Let's see if we can agree on something. Do you agree that the command to sing in both Ephesians and Colossians is a command of the new covenant?
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